Hi Folks
We got our leaky roof redone and the sidewall flashing didn’t get redone – its still leaking now. We have a 1 story garage that wraps around the back corner of the house so there’s a sidewall and frontwall flashing problem. Outside to inside the house has vinyl siding over old wood clapboard siding, then the original step flashing, then felt, then board sheathing.
I’m guessing we need to pry up a few shingles, take off the vinyl and get some new good step flashing in there. But we have to get it behind the clapboards as well- what’s the best way to do this? I think if we pry off the clapboards, the 40 year old felt is gonna fall apart behind it and unravel into another problem. The BI suggested I cut them, in place, at an angle up the roof with a sawzall to get to the felt and then cover the new step flashing with some “filler” lumber to get it even for the vinyl siding. I can’t see anyone being that delicate with a sawzall – any other way?
Also what’s the best sidewall – frontwall outside corner flashing technique?
I’m gonna try and get our roofer to redo this spot but I want to be able to tell him exactly what I want him to do since he didn’t do it right the first time.
Thanks for your help.
-Brian
Edited 6/22/2006 7:19 am ET by grandizer
Replies
Start by taking the vinyl off the sidewall, take a pencil and draw the top of the nailing flange on each piece so you can install it the same way it came off.
Once you have the sidewall siding removed I probably just have the roofer step flash up against the wood siding, putting the step flashing behind the wood siding is and invitation to water getting soaked up into the siding and mold,rot from there.
If you have to remove the shingles that butt against the wall I would roll a piece of ice and water shield half way up the roof and half down on the roof. Then reshingle and stepflash as you go.
After the step flashing has been installed put a full piece of ice and water shield on the wall on top of the step flashing. The ice and water will help seal any nails that penetrate to step flashing.
Then you can install your siding, the j-channel that runs the roofline needs to be nailed only on the "high spots" of the wood siding if not your j-channel will run up the roofline like a snake thats no good.
Be sure to reinstall the siding to your pencil marks that you made as you took it off. If not the courses of vinyl won't line up when you get to the top. Once again no good. Try not to nail the siding into the step flashing stay back a few inches.
Get yourself a siding zipper it will help in getting the vinyl off easily.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
As for the flashing for sidewall you asked about if I'm picturing this right you should have a pan for the frontwall that runs the length of that wall. It should run up the wall at least six inches and down onto the second to last course of shingles. The last course of shingles covers that pan.
Run the pan past your corner 8 inches or so and cut at a 45 degree angle from the corner out. Then wrap the wall side around the corner and fold the roof side down. This should all be done before the last course of shingles are installed on the wall side.
Then take a piece of step flashing and place it at the corner intersection point and fold it around to the frontwall side. I like to cut a square corner out of a piece of flat stock and place it under the pan tight to the two walls.
Then your roofer can proceed to shingle. Again
If you don't have a wall pan then you will have to remove more siding, J-channel, and the vinyl corner to do this right. So mark everything before you take it off so it goes on the same way.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Stilletto, thanks for the great and detailed info.Question about the not putting the flashing behind the wood clapboards-just the vinyl. I agree, its much less messy and invites fewer mistakes. But vinyl siding isn't really waterproof, so water can get behind the siding and possibly up over the step flashing. I've heard some imbed the flashing in caulking on the wall side but you use I&W over top. Am I getting this right? It makes sense from a longevity point of view though I imagine it makes repairs harder than with caulking. Do you have any problem running I&W up a wall with clapboards?Thanks for the frontwall tips too. I really hope the roofer will do all this but I don't see him being all that patient. Is this stuff a roofer typically does - remove siding and all?Thanks again.
Vinyl is fairly waterproof it's kind of a two part system. Once the water gets behind the siding where's it going is the best way to think of it. Thats why Tyvek or felt paper is important in the picture. If you don't have any windows in the sidewall the only spot water is going to possibly get in is the corner. While you have the siding off run felt or Tyvek on top of the Ice and water up the wall as far as possible if none is there.
As for ice and water shield on the wall just staple or nail it in the high spots of the clapboards. It will stick great to the step flashing and the clapboards it intersects with.
And the siding, I do what ever I have to do to sleep good at night, if I have to take all the siding off in these areas to do my job right, I do.
I haven't had a call back yet and am not looking forward to one either. That call at midnight saying the drywall or plaster fell off the ceiling and its flooding the inside scares me.
If he doesn't want to do it and wants to tar the problem tell him to take a hike and do yourself a favor and find a real roofer. People who don't want to take any extra steps to do a good job aren't worth the hassle.
Anyway good luck man. Any other questions feel free to fire away.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Thanks again. I wish there were more contractors like you around here.
If you can tolerate another couple of questions...
There must be voids between the "low" spots in the clapboards and the step flashing - any detailing there to worry about? It must be a bit of a challenge to keep the step flashing straight all the way down since the clapboards will run in and out with the low and high points.
I had heard there should be I&W or felt from the roof up the sidewall a bit, before the step flashing even happens. Do you still do that with this method?
-Brian
If you have to take off the vinyl then I would take off 3 or 4 courses of the claps , nail off the sidewall sheathing and install a strip of 3/4" CDX to match the build out thickness of the siding, this will give you a smooth transition and a much better substrate to adhere Ice & Watershield.up the wall at least 8" and overlapping over the second to last course of roofing. I would install a 12" lead wall flashing with 6 up the wall and 6 onthe roof, run another strip of Ice over wall side of the flashing. Run lead 4-6 past the corner from each directions, cut and mold with block and hammer then use either silicone or black jack under each overlap to ensure a tight seal. I usually run a nice bead of roof cement to glue down the last course of roofing and nail with ringshanked ss nails. Also if you can use starter strip instead of j channel it wont hold the water
I don't think using starter strip is an option for him. On the sidewall at least. By the sounds of it the siding runs into a roofline. I think thats what he means by sidewall and frontwall. Maybe not and I'm off in left field.
The ice and water up the roofline just seals the step flashing against snow build up and melt off in the j-channel. I'm in snow country though.
I don't like to tar anything, tar cracks then leaks. I have a trick for the last course of shingles on dimensional shingles. No visible nails, no tar.
Edit: I have stopped using lead flashing, with the possibilities of water runoff into the gutters then into the ground. Thats just me though, I know a lot of people who swear by the stuff. I just know I can do a roof without using it.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Edited 6/23/2006 6:28 am ET by Stilletto
I use the roof cement under the shingles to help add to the seal strip on the back of the shingles or i use small strips of ice wrapped to expose the sticky side this is all to prevent wind lift then the ss nails are used , if highly visible then a small dab of roof cement and sprinkle roof granules over the cement what is your trick?
On laminated dimensional shingles I pull the top part of the laminated shingle up and nail under that part, and the flap will tar itself back down. Works great in summer time, in winter you have to keep a bundle of shingles warm for it to work. Resulting in no visible nails. No caulk and no tar.
Probably not the pros way of doing it, but it will never leak. It works in all spots where you cut the top part of the shingle off. Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Sorry to dust off an old thread...I'm just about to give up on trying to find a roofer or carp. to do this - no one wants it. So since its a 3 day weekend with nice weather I might just go up there myself and try it - despite a fear of heights.So a few more detailed questions and hopefully we'll be done with this.1. At the ridge of the leaky roof where it meets the sidewall, what is the flashing detail? One side of the roof is fine and I won't mess with it - the flashing here is under the original clapboards. On the side to be fixed I'm gonna try, as Stilletto suggests, to step flash over the original clapboards. There will be a small gap at the ridge where the two flashings don't meet (a clapboard will be between them). Is there some detailing here or do I just caulk the gap and hope it doesn't leak?2. Is it worth using lead or soldered copper at the frontwall-sidewall corner? Has anyone tried these :
http://www.amerimax.com/productdetail.asp?iProductId=97&iSubCatID=5
Seems a little flimsy to me, but since the rest of the flashing is aluminum maybe that's easier/better. I'm sort of leak-phobic now so I started looking at monolithic corners.3. I'll cover the wood clapboards with 30# felt to the eaves/soffits before I reinstall the vinyl. Do I just tape the top of the felt to the top clapboard? I don't think I can get the top j-channel off so it would be below that.Thanks again all. Sorry to bring up old, not very interesting topics.
Sorry that you can't find good help.
Pull off the ridge cap and reflash the leaking side, then cut 2 pcs of step flashing so they interlock as well as bend over the ridge on top of the last shingles on the good side. Then cap over the step flashing.
As for felt up the wall, use ice and water shield it will stick to wall, then you can nail it to the high spots in the clapboard siding. So reflash then Ice and water then J-channel and siding.
Remember to mark each piece of siding as you take it down, the uphill angles will get away from you in a hurry if you are not careful.
Thanks again, Stilletto.I just got a call from a carpenter down the street last night after I posted - I had about given up. I'll hold off putting on the fall-harness for another week and see what comes of this. But I appreciate your help through the whole thing.
No problem, I hope this guy does the job right for you.