I got about a dozen doors stripped at a local place that uses a hot water, lye solution. It cost $70 and got them pretty clean. These are 4 panel doors with applied moldings in the panels. There is a fair amount of junk along the moldings that I’ll be getting out. I’m looking for any tips on any door maintenance, finishing, and rehanging.
In the archives people mention this sort of stripping loosening the joints. they aren’t obviously loose. But I have a feeling I may not really know until I hang the door. To fix this do I essentially just spread the panels out loosening the tenons, then apply some yellow glue and smack them back into place? I attached a picture of the corner of a stack of doors showing the joinery.
How about refinishing. I know I need to rinse them with a vinegar solution to neutralize the lye. I plan to stain them, but haven’t figured out a plan for that yet. Any suggestions.
Most of the jambs seem to be quite buggered when I took them out. Some were held in with monster screws into a deep joist. Some had nails. I read about people using toothpicks and golf tees to reinforce the door hinges. I think much of this will be beyond that.
Eric
Edited 10/8/2007 4:24 pm ET by splat
Replies
Eric
Man your going to play hell trying to get those doors ready for stain grade finish! I know thats not what you want to hear but........
I'd guess you'll spend a lot of time trying to clean up all the paint residue and still not get it all. For stain grade you have to get every bit of the paint or it will never look good.
Dealing with the loose joints maybe the easy part of your job!
If you just have an occasional loose joint then try to seperate the joint enough to get some glue to trickle down in and clamp back up tight. Try not to glue the panels they need to be able to move/float.
It's possible to drill and insert a dowel rod in through the ends if there is some missing wood, this will stablelize the joints more-so then just yellow glueing a joint with missing wood.
Sorry for the doom and gloom and I hope that the rest of the doors look better then the one I see.
Doug
You can use either threaded inserts, or t-nuts to hold the hinges to the jambs. I find, especially on old jambs with worn out screw holes, that either of these work much better than trying to fill the screw holes with wood. Just use an appropriate size flat head bolt for the hinge screw. ( # 10, I think)
I'd be tempted to remove the applied mouldings to finish cleaning up the doors. You can really get into the nooks and crannies that way. And since you want to stain, that's important.
Never, thought of T-nuts. My first thought would be that they wouldn't have the pull out strength. Guess I should reconsider.>I'd be tempted to remove the applied mouldings
First, thing we did. With them out of the way the final stripping isn't too hard.eric
The t nuts actually mount from the back of the jamb. As their name implies, there's a flange on them( making the t) which makes them virtually impossible to pull thru or out.
As long as you have access to the back side of the jamb, I think they're the way to in old, stripped out wood.
The threaded inserts were recommended by someone else here. They should work, and can be installed on existing jambs with the casing on. But I don't have any personal experience with them.
Whoever did that job of stripping should be ashamed of themselves. I never would have paid for it, and probably would have sued them in small claims court for ruining my doors. You are going to have to get a set of scrapers that are designed to fit into curves and tight spaces and spend hours cleaning out the #### they didn't clean. go to a good paint store for this. While you are at it, you will probably need a couple of good dental picks to get into the really small holes. Typically, they are stainless steel and strong, not too expensive. Go carefully andslowly. Some of the leftover paint will come out dry, and some will need to be resoaked with stripper. You will never get 100% unless you take the doors apart (and you don't want to do that). Once they are neutralized, sanded, stained and finished, you will probably need to get some artist's colors for the final, final coverup of those spots that you couldn't get to.
Doors will loosen and need to be reglued. As far as filling in big holes, a dowel glued in or a piece of wood put in place will be a much better fix than a simple piece of matchstick, shingle or golf tee. Little ones are okay on the quick fix - maybe one of the three holes in a typical hinge.
At least it's the fall and you have something to do this winter.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Retals
They did take off an obnoxious amount of paint. Much of the "gunk" between the molding and door is caulk. So I'm not too surpised that didn't come off. I wish the flats were cleaner though.The stripper remarked that these were as much paint as he has seen. Particularly the colors were extra bizarre too, a lot of strong colors like black, red, and purples. He speculated they were from a frat.We're about done with the first one. The first step was taking the moldings off. Then a coating of peel away on any paint. With it apart like that it comes off pretty easy but does take time and clean up for sure.By next weekend we'll decide if stain grade is worth it.Eric
On your frames, glue and clamp all of the splits and previous repairs.
Then start over with 4 1/2" mortise hinges. The hole pattern for the screws should place them away from your repairs. And MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL!, drill pilot holes for all screws.By the way, if I was a betting man, I would say that the door with the through tenon joinery is a lot older than the others."How 'bout them Cowboys?!"
"As far as filling in big holes, a dowel glued in or a piece of wood put in place will be a much better fix than a simple piece of matchstick, shingle or golf tee."
Van Dykes sells these (cones) - http://www.vandykes.com/product/02235781/ and a tool that works very well to fill old hinge holes.
Jeff
Here is some information on strippers. Read the section on lye:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/finish7.htmlYou have a big job ahead of you. You might want to invest in one of these with a few accessory blades:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=6398&filter=scraper
and/or
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=110-381I second DonK's observations:
95493.4 in reply to 95493.1 Whoever did that job of stripping should be ashamed of themselves. I never would have paid for it, and probably would have sued them in small claims court for ruining my doors. You are going to have to get a set of scrapers that are designed to fit into curves and tight spaces and spend hours cleaning out the #### they didn't clean. go to a good paint store for this. While you are at it, you will probably need a couple of good dental picks to get into the really small holes. Typically, they are stainless steel and strong, not too expensive. Go carefully andslowly. Some of the leftover paint will come out dry, and some will need to be resoaked with stripper. You will never get 100% unless you take the doors apart (and you don't want to do that). Once they are neutralized, sanded, stained and finished, you will probably need to get some artist's colors for the final, final coverup of those spots that you couldn't get to.Doors will loosen and need to be reglued. As far as filling in big holes, a dowel glued in or a piece of wood put in place will be a much better fix than a simple piece of matchstick, shingle or golf tee. Little ones are okay on the quick fix - maybe one of the three holes in a typical hinge.At least it's the fall and you have something to do this winter.Don K.
FYI around here (stripper in Newtown PA) we pay about $135/door but the stripper does all of the work including neutralizing. Full depth tanks are methelyne chloride then hydrocloric acid etc. to produce a PH neutral finish. No water is used.
Jeff
I was going to say the same as Don K. That looks like a poor stripping job. It looks as if the stripper was figuring that you are going to repaint. The guy that is stripping my doors asks me if I'm going to repaint or if I'm going to stain. Since I'm staining he charges a bit more but the end product is about 99.8% complete. I have to do a little minor work on small crannies. I pay to have then stripped so I don't have to spend all the time with scrappers, etc.
I've had about 10 doors dipped and have not any problems with the joints. However my guy is using a chemical dip tank for his work. I do spend a chunk of time sanding and prep before I stain and finish. It's been about 5 years for some of the first ones and still no issues.
Diane
OK, damn. Sure would have been nice to get them clean. That labor is worth some extra $ that's for sure.I think a friend might be taking several windows over. I'll tell him to get a stain grade price as well.Once, the moldings are off the paint does clean up without much work at least.Eric
This looks a lot like the kind of stripping work we used to see back in the hippy days of the late 70's. We'd soak them down with tung oil and lacquer thinner after gluing any loose pieces and then sand the stabilized wood and pick out the worst of the caulk before putting on a few more coats of tung oil and/ or wax. Kind of a rustic finish but warm and natural in a Birkenstock kind of way. I sort of miss it. We call it Wabi-Sabi these days.
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
> To fix this do I essentially just spread the panels out loosening
> the tenons, then apply some yellow glue and smack them back into
> place?
No. Yellow glue only works well with raw wood. The only glue that works well with previously glued joints is the stuff marketed as "superglue" (I think the generic term is cyanoacrylic?). Anyway, with that stuff, you don't even have to take the joints apart - it soaks in through any cracks.
The only exception to this rule is hide glue (the stuff that has to be heated up, not the cra.... uh.... the stuff in the bottle in the paint department at Lowes). Hide glue works well for regluing joints that were originally glued with hide glue.
I think the latest issue of FWW has an article on this.
George Patterson
Edited 10/9/2007 10:51 pm ET by grpphoto