I have an old sheet floor covering in a rental property I bought that I want to refinish. It seemed as if the ‘wax’ finish was very built up and very soiled. I attempted to remove the finish by using a stripper which actually worked well but now I need to apply a finish. I applied a floor polish ‘armstrong exelon’ but the polish brought up what appears to be the asphalt(?) component in its make up. The milky acrylic liquid became progressively gray then black as I tried to spread it. I blotted up the polish and am now looking for what I can seal the floor with before I apply a finish.
Any ideas? This happened last night so I was going to go play around today with maybe shellac? I’m really lost so I need the help of the vastly experienced tradespeople that post here.
Thank you in advance for all your inputs!
Jay
Replies
Are you saying there was a linoleum /vinyl covering you have removed or just a well worn wooden floor with an odd finish?
Edited 10/20/2007 8:19 pm ET by rez
I guess I wasn't clear. The flooring is sheet goods that I thought was linoleum. As I've looked into it I'm finding it is technically (I think) a congoleum-nairn flooring from somewheres around 30's to 50's. The backing is an asphalt felt and the pattern portion is also asphalt based. That is why the polish which has a solvent in it that must be petroleum based and it disolves the surface. I want to save this floor. Except for under the sink where I'll be installing a vanity it's in good shape.
Edited 10/20/2007 10:03 pm ET by remodlrj
Edited 10/20/2007 10:09 pm ET by remodlrj
Like rez I'm a bit confused as to what you really have on your floor.
Shellac is good to seal with but I'm not sure what your sealing yet?
Doug
I want to seal the top surface so that I can apply a wax or some other top coat as a wear surface.
I tried shellac this morning and it did the same thing that the acrylic polish did.
The flooring is in good shape and has an excellent look, very retro, and the same material and pattern flows into the kitchen in which I want to do the same treatment to.
remod-
What have you done so far to clear the floor of the old residue from that linoleum style product?
Edited 10/20/2007 10:16 pm ET by rez
I used a floor stripper designed to remove wax type finishes from linoleum, or resilient tile floors. I let it sit for 5 min. as recommended scrubbed w/elec. rotary brush and vaccumed residue up as per instructions. It removed almost all of the finish as evident by the dullness after rinsing w/water and drying. There were a few patches where finish remained. I had assumed that it was a wax build up or a series of similar finishes. My guess is it hasn't been stripped in at least 20 yrs..
If your willing to listen to advice from a fellow DIYer and content with an average job it sounds like the perfect setup for a light sanding.
Since the bulk of the residue finish is gone it should be quick work to sand which is a norm in the situation you are presenting.
You haven't said how large an area you are talking about as if a whole house scenario or just a main room/entry but since the finish has been mostly removed it should be quick work even without the rental of a full floor sander.
Saying that because depending on the size of the area even a 3 or 4 inch belt sander with a medium to a finer grit should produce decent enough results to get you by with a passable job.
You're going to want to give the floor a sanding to remove the last of whatever it is causing the difficulty.
I'm not sure you're getting what I'm looking to do. I want to keep the existing flooring. It's linoleum esq with a black field w/white swirls and there is an inlaid white border. It's very attractive and very retro, which goes w/ the rest of the house. I'm working in an 8x5 bath but the floor continues into the kitchen which is about 11x13.I removed the waxy build up which brought the floor to a renewed condition but w/o the shiny finish. What I'm looking to do now is apply a new finish but I can't seem to find one that works. I'm assuming I must have removed the originally factory applied sealer and finish when I applied the stripper. I need some sort of product that isn't solvent based.
I hope this clears it up for you. I have limited experience w/floors that aren't wood, tile, or no wax. My problem was I made a few assuptions and just jumped right in w/o testing things first. Not the first time for that. Certainly won't be the last!
oh, oh ok That explains a lot.
Im sorry sometimes it's difficult to follow on the internet.
Now that the situation has been clarified let's hope that someone might come up with a recommendation.
Cheers
Edited 10/21/2007 12:08 am ET by rez
Cheers!
I hate to say this but I'm wondering if you didnt remove the factory applied clear finish and consequently ruining your vinyl flooring.
I've never heard of anyone taking the clear coat off of sheet flooring before and re-coating it. I didnt think it posible!
Doug
remod-
That floor does sound like saving and since you've come this far in your search you might as well take a bit more.
If I were in the circumstance you are in I might be tempted to try and locate a retired flooring guy who was around back in the day to ask an opinion.
Perhaps a call to a factory rep somewhere and beat the bushes.
Seems there should be a sealer of some type that would fit in with your scenario like a waterborne finish.
When I first read this thread yesterday, I said to my wife and myself " Ooops, I think he ruined his floor" Reading along up till now,I am getting more convinced of that.
Maybe BLO will resurface that, being as to my knowledge, old Lino was just BLO impregnated paper, and the asphaltum was the mastic. If the mastic is seeping up, well, time for a new floor I think.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
well, time for a new floor I think
Yea, I'm afraid so. At first I thought he had a wood floor that had linolium that had been tore up, needed finish, but now its clear as mud and I think the vinyl floor is history!
Doug
I really don't believe the floor is lost. I didn't remove mechanically much material, and I needed to take the floor down past the soiled top coats. The floor looks to be and is in very good condition aside from a surface shine. It's hard to believe that a flooring that has been around for these many years would be that fragile.
Could you please explain what BLO impregnated paper is?
I have a piece that was removed from underneath the sink and I rubbed just a bit of the stripper on w/o much agitation and got the same result. The pattern goes all the way through the 1/8" plus thickness so I'm convinced that there is a product or different method w/ a product that will solve this problem. Possibly w/ a sprayer like I believe DougU mentioned above.
I'm determined to find a solution and will. Any suggestions on how to remove the soiled finish on the remaining areas in the hallway and kitchen?
Edited 10/21/2007 9:48 pm ET by remodlrj
If ya had a picture it may help immensly to ID what you are dealing with.
BLO =Boiled Linseed Oil ( The LIN in lin-O-Leum).
There could be a simple fix, or not. Identifing what is what is where to start.
First off, I'd STOP right now, it don't sound good. If wax is your concern, Ammonia is all that ya need, maybe some TSP..both with WATER, NO SOLVENTS!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Thanks! I've already put things on hold until I get this worked out. I've got another bath on the other end of the house to do. I'll get some pictures tomorrow. Obviously I'm not sure if it's purely a wax finish or not but I'll try the ammonia in an inconspicuous area also tomorrow and maybe we can pin point what this is. Once again Thanks!
If you are having the asphatic portion bleed out it is pretty clear that you have removed the resin surface that was the clear protective coat. It may not be your fault. It could have been worn out years ago, or long marriage to the wax surfacing and ccontained grit is part of the cause. Or it ould be that an old product like this was never intended to hjave chemical strippers applied or that a combination of aging in place, traffic and all the above...Anyways, the only thing I can think of right now is a water based polyurethene. Test in a small hidden corner location first. Your solvent cleaner seeems to have hurt it and the alchohol based shellac the same, but you report no damage from rinsing with water, so if the water based poly will bond to it, that is the ticket.
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I really do appreciate all the help in trying to decipher my situation. I tried the forum starting Sat. nite because all businesses were closed for the weekend and I craved answers. Today I tried talking w/someone at Armstrong but they really weren't helpful. I tried an installer and his hypothesis was that it was an asphalt product but all finishes today were formulized to remove asphalt that was tracked in from asphalt driveways and therefore would not be compatable w/this flooring. So I experimented w/paste wax thinking this may have been an old time method of sealing it.
The paste wax did not break down the surface and hardened like it should. But I had gotten a bit of roofing tar on my hands earlier in the day and I rubbed a bit of the wax on the tar and it dissolved it immediately. So It made me think that it can't be asphalt or the paste wax would interact w/it. So I called a fried who cleans carpets and asked him. He used to do all types of flooring.
His analysis was that the floor is infact linoleum, but a very old linoleum. The stripper did its job but the flooring itself has become more brittle and porous over the years and after the clean up there would still be some residue left in the open pores. Also because of the age of the material it is breaking down causing the dye to release. So it wasn't an asphalt residue it was the black dye or pigment of the black linoleum itself.
His suggested solution would be to try the armstrong polish but in a gentler method of application in lighter doses so as to not agitate the dye until the pores are once again sealed.
So I'm experimenting with ways to apply the polish. the good news is I applied the polish to a scrap of the white border and it did not bring up any black residue and possibly a bit of a chalky color so it may appear that I'm on the right track. He also suggested I might wash the surface w/an acid or citric wash to neutralize the alkalinity of any remaining stripper.
I tried to include a picture of the floor but I don't know how to shrink the size of the file to include it. I'm actually going to send it along but I'll warn you that it may be a large file.
Anyways, I still welcome all your posts and help in analyzing my situation. I'll keep you posted on my progress. If someone can give me a link to how I can send a proper photo I'll send you progress pictures. I appreciate you all.
remod
Here is your pic reduced a bit.
View Image
Go to Irfanview.com and download the program, its free and almost everybody on here uses it.
If you have any problems with the irfanview let us know, someone will help ya.
Doug
Edited 10/22/2007 11:14 pm ET by DougU
The pattern goes all the way through the 1/8" plus thickness
this quote makes me think that he may have real linoleum and if so there wouldnt be a clear top sheet like there would be with our typical vinyl sheet goods of today.
Have to wait and see what he comes up with though......
Doug
You could consider spraying the shellac on, that way there will be no contact with the surface so no aggitating of the two substances.
I'm not even sure thats good advice because I cant figure out whats bleeding/mixing through.
Doug