Replies

1. 
   Joe_Hammes | Feb 23, 1999 06:29am | #1

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   Carole: I've carefully refinished my 185 year-old pine floors like this: Clean and scrub with ammonia to remove wax and scum. Then sand them with 120 grit pads on a random orbit, hand-held sander to preserve the hand-planing marks still evident in some rooms; this sander does not destroy patina if used lightly. Vacuum, wipe, then varnish directly without stain, which I discovered darkens the wood too much. Try a small area first to be sure you like the slight color varaitions; I do and think it adds to the wear-induced patina. Polyurethane is OK but I'va also used Ben Moore's One-Hour Finish (oil) with great results. I admire your decision not to brutalize your floors with a horrible floor sander; old pine deserves better! Good Luck, Joe

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   Carole | Feb 23, 1999 06:53pm | #2

   *Thanks Joe. Will the sanding you recommend also remove the oxidized surface color (which has become a really nice pumpkin-orange)? I'm almost more concerned about the possibility of losing this great color than I am about the wear marks...

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   Ben_Howe | Feb 24, 1999 09:53am | #3

   *CaroleI am presenly engaged in a similar project only I am installing pine flooring from a salvage mission (I too would love to preserve that age old patina but, sadly the variations in level make that impossible). I think you need to be a bit more specific as to what the damages are from your recent reno ie: is it a case of a few additional scratches, has the old protective coating been chipped (If so, how thick is that coating)etcAs far as removing waxes and miscellaneous goo gaas from the floor goes, I believe that MinWax has some decent (and cheap) wax removers on the market and, a shop vac should take care of the rest. Bear in mind that it is tough to make a new finish over an old finish look believable. If you are to have any success you will have to mildly abrade the old finish in order to get a decent bond. All that said, I have, in fact, done a few old pine floors in my house with the, much maligned, drum sander and, have not been in the least dissatisfied with the results. (you can trust me that I am theeeee biggest proponent of historical integrity on the planet) These floors of mine, came up great with another MinWax boost of oil followed by multiple coats of urethane and, yes, like the lines on a ninety year old forehead,they still tell me tales of their past

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   Carole | Feb 24, 1999 11:30pm | #4

   *I should give you some background on what we've tried in another part of the house: in some bedrooms we tried "screening" (rather than sanding) the floors and then evened out the color with stain, over which an oil-based marine poly was applied. (The old finish was scratched and abraided by more than a year of renovation debris- plaster dust, etc being ground into it). The stain changed and darkened the color somewhat, and the sheen on the poly came out uneven in spots. It also has taken weeks to harden, and has a slightly hazy appearance. We now must do something to remedy this. Our contractor will want to try to rescreen and quick-fix, but we think stripping and starting again may be necessary. He says that even though the old finish was oil poly as well, he never wanted to apply a new finish over the old without sanding, and blames the outcome on material on the floor surface that prevented a proper bond (possibly oil-soap?). I would have thought that the staining process would clean the surface, or in any case it should have been wiped down with something before re-coating with poly...Downstairs, we don't want to have the same problems when we do the floors, and would prefer not to apply a stain. The original pumpkin color of the old pine suits us and was achieved by years of natural oxidation... but the finish on it is equally damaged. We're afraid if we don't clean the wood of any possible contaminant, we won't get a clear hard finish again. Any further ideas or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

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   david_sorg | Feb 25, 1999 05:06am | #5

   *Carole, unfortunately I don't think there is an answer that will work and that you will like. Urethanes and polyurethanes are notorious for not sticking very well to any substrate and terrible for another coat of anything adhering to it- you can remove all the greases and waxes, but a new layer of poly will only stick (and barely) to a physically rough (that is,sanded) surface of old poly. One of the pluses of urethane finishes is their elasticity and toughness, but it is a minus when it comes to repairability, whether it's touch-up or re-coating. If it was a small piece of furniture, I would recommend careful stripping of the existing layers of finish, trying to preserve the natural color the surface of the wood has acquired with time. But with such large surface areas as floors, I don't think that would be practical. I believe that you'll have to sand the floors to get to a workable base. I like Joe's idea of the hand sander to preserve some of the markings, but imagine that it must be very slow if there is a lot of area or a number of previous coats to cut through.I would like to avoid getting a reputation on these postings for advocating the use of shellac, but in your case I do think it would be best. Shellac sticks well to most anything, which would be good if you decide to leave deeper marks in the wood, which would still have some sort of thin coat of some old finish; if you use orange shellac you may instantly have much of that pumkin color- in fact, it may be that the original coats of finish on your floor are orange shellac. Shellac is easy to apply and wonderfully easy to repair, it will melt into itself. It has a lovely gloss that can be reduced if wanted by buffing with steel wool or similiar. The biggest disadvantage is that it is not very water repellant and hence not the best for kitchens or entrance halls if water will stand without being wiped up.Sorry to not give you an easy and perfect answer, but I don't think one exists. I do think you'd be very happy with the shellac if you decide to do the strip and refinish. Good luck!

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   Carole | Feb 25, 1999 10:00am | #6

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   Our old pine floors have a nice aged patina with a history we would like to preserve- scratches and all. It has aged to a natural pumpkin color we love. The varnish, however, was not protected during renovations, and so it needs recoating. How can we be sure any waxes or cleaning products are removed before applying polyurethane or some other finish, since we prefer not to sand the floors? I think sanding would remove all of the little wear marks, and leave the bigger ones which would then be more obvious, plus it would take off the nice natural oxidation.
   If sanding is our only option, how can we restore the natural aged color? I haven't yet seen a stain color that matches exactly.

3. 
   Guest_ | Feb 25, 1999 10:00am | #7

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   Carole, having redone a few antique pine floors, that required agressive sanding and or planing to remove many (7+) layers of paint, don't be concerned over the "patina of age" you refer to in your original post. The coloration comes from the age of the wood, the species and old growth nature of the wood, and less from the coatings and surface
   condition existing currently. As Ben Howe noted, a historically accurate appearance can be achieved with a oil-based finish, wether satin polyurethane or a penetrating oil such as Watco. I'd refrain from rescreening and recoating the floor as you noted in your more recent post; I recommend you sand to bare wood, skip the stain, and apply a oil-based finish.