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It’s at the top of the rafter dummy.
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It's at the top of the rafter dummy.
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Okay, here's the deal. Some friends helped frame my garage last weekend, and we got it all done including the roof trusses; however as we put the last truss in place we discovered that the measurements for the placement of the trusses on the wall plate were done starting from opposite ends of the two plates, so the trusses are all angled by 1 1/2" towards the left. Ouch! Except for the two end trusses that rest on the wall. My question: do we need to move these (VERY well nailed into place with toenails AND Simpson ties) trusses into the correct position in order to be able to put on the sheathing, or can it be somehow worked out by cutting the plywood sheets to make sure that the edges meet on the truss? Will it look funny/be unsafe? Complicating things further, we also put rafter-like extensions (sorry I don't know the terminology) to support the side overhang; these butt into the next-to-last rafter and are recessed into cuts made in the last rafter (wish I could draw this, it sounds confusing -- hope you can figure out what I mean). So those would all have to be taken out and moved as well. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!
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Bethh,
Joseph Fusco
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"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth."
Socrates
*Bethh, I agree with Joe all your sheathing will have to be cut out of square. Pain but not unsafe, if you plan to sheetrock the ceiling this also will have to be cut out of square once again a pain but not impossable. Vince
*I'd fix it. It'll be a few hours work and may cost you a few extra nails and ties, but I'd recommend doing the job right from the start. If not, you'll be grumbling as you cobble together "fixes" for each subsequent task for the remainder of the project.Fix it. Please.
*If you go for the fix, you might try cutting the nails and holddowns with a sawzall instead of pulling all those nails. - jb
*JB's method is probably the fastest. An other effective cobble method would be to sister a 4' long 2X4 on all trusses where the plywood seams need more bearing. It will be very wastefull to cut the plywood edges out of square as they would have to be cut down to 6'trapezoids to run level. Joe
*It actually is not alot of work to fix the problam if you first cut the nail with a sawsall. It will take a little time but it you will make up the time when you start to sheet the roof or do the drywall underneath. Remember..you only learn from mistakes!
*Pull the nails, this is a job for CATSPAW !Move the wrong side to the right side of the line, and then renail them. Use a japanese style nailpuller (catspaw).DON"T CUT THE PLYWOOD.Scab onto the side with a 2x4 if you have to, but I would move the trusses to where they belong.Three steps forward, one step back, but just another day in the life.
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BethH,
One more vote for moving them. The lookouts that support
your overhang shouldn't be too much of a factor-they should
move over as a unit with the gable end truss, the one where
you discovered your mistake! BTW, they must have installed
these on the ground and hoisted it as a unit? Why did they
nail on all those Simpson's if they knew it was off on
layout? Next time, wait til they're done before you pass out
the grog!
MD
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Another way of removing the ties: Take a small handheld grinder and get above the plate so the sparks don't fly in your face, and grind all the heads off the joist hanger nails. The ties will then come right off and you can pound in the grinded nails. This should be faster than or at least cleaner looking than the sawzall approach. Pull your toenails with a catspaw and slide em over. Since you only have to do one side of a garage, this should not take very long.Are these guys going to frame your house? (Heh, Heh)Happy grind
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Grind the heads off. Good idea. Less chance for trauma to the framing members. That cat's paw can sure do some damage though. - jb
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It looks like the consensus is for pulling them and getting it straight. I really appreciate this forum; it seems like there are a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people out there! I'll let you know how it goes. This is my first experience with framing, obviously, and it is great to have a source with answers to those tricky questions that don't get covered in the books.
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Bethh,
Joseph Fusco
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"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth."
Socrates
*Well, Joe, no one said it was easy, just the right thing to do. Speaking from the point of view of one who has made the wrong choice, " well that's good enough, we'll fix it in the next step" and then you have the rest of the job to wish you had fixed it when you had the chance.
* Mike,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Actually, what we would have done and do, since framing on the wrong side of the line seems to happen all the time, is we would have moved the 4' and 8' rafters and left the rest alone. So,maaaybe, we can compromise on this one , OK boss ?BTW: any of you anal framers mark both sides in the hopes that they will wind up where they're supposed to be ? It takes one to know one.
*Bethh,I think that it depends on whether or not you mind leaving a mistake behind. If you leave it, sheathing your roof and hanging drywall will be more difficult. However, it will not be unsafe. If you decide to change it, use a sawzall on the toe-nails. Pulling the toe-nails will probably break the edge of at least some of the trusses, making it more difficult to toe-nail it the second time.I always find it amazing how easy it is to nail a framing member on the wrong side of the line.
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Joseph Fusco View Image
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Well, it took about 3 hours but I did move them (there were only 7 trusses that had to be moved). It wasn't as bad as I thought, and it does feel better to have them right. I've done other projects where that initial mistake ends up being a hassle all the way through, and I was afraid this was going to be one of those. Next, the roof sheathing!
*What are you going to sheathe it with?
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Mike,
I mark everything I can during the layout phase. I mean you're right there with a pencil in your hand anyway and this did happen to me (once). Deciding which side of a line to put something on requires thought and its much easier to think while alone in the layout phase than during the wrestle your end while supervising the fearless squirrels phase.
JonC
JonC
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We used 1/2" exterior plywood for the roof sheathing, but everything took a lot longer than I thought, and I have to get the building inspector out there before I can put the roofing paper and the asphalt shingles on. Meanwhile the forecast is for rain tomorrow and Friday - I hope that doesn't mess up the plywood. It looks great now though! I'm getting used to working up on the roof, though I spent the first half hour hyperventilating and clinging to things while I tried to use the nail gun (scared of heights). Well, it's good to stretch the limits now and then.
*Beth, we never have to have our roof sheathing inspected before applying the felt. What are they looking for, nail spacing? Seems like they could pull up some paper and check that later. I wouldn't want to get it wet, even with fir plywood.Good Luck,MDxx
*I don't know, they just said next inspection is when the sheathing is done so I assumed that meant roof and wall sheathing. I'm on my way now to Home Depot to buy a plastic tarp!
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When was the last time any one saw an inspector on a roof? The next inspector you see on a pitched roof will be the first one. Good luck on your project.
Joe
*Bethh: Isn't there a local lumber yard who's prices arn't much off HD, where they may even remember you the 2d time you come in and where you can actually drive your vehicle to the lumber and you don't stand in line for an hour trying to check out and they'll tell the truth instead of whatever pops into their head to make the sale. I mean HD is for people who don't have relationships with a good lumber yard. What's a nice girl like you doing at HD ?
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Maybe skip the tarp, put the money into good roofing felt, staple it down and take a very minimal chance with the building inspector. This way, you're protected. You can always tear off the felt without losing much ground if you have to. Where are you located? I hate stupid codes/rules.
MD
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Isn't the sheathing a critical part of the roof diaphram? Especially on a DIY project, I think it's a good idea to inspect the nailing...not that I've ever seen it. - jb
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Thanks for all the good input. About HD, I think you're right, Mike. But they are nearby and convenient, although I'm trying to buy as much as I can from locally owned places like the hardware store where they do know me and have knowledgeable people to answer questions. I'm in downtown Sacramento, and all the big lumber places are out in the suburbs. Anyway, I did buy tar paper, and the storm held off long enough for me to get it up there yesterday morning. Also had the inspector come by - this is the last time I get a permit unless I absolutely can't avoid it! Talk about picky - the garage will be able to serve as a bomb shelter by the time this guy is satisfied. Right again Joe, he did NOT get up on the roof.
*I'm in the final stages of rough work on a decent sized custom contemporary, designed by an architect with a lot of details. The rough-in inspection was a couple weeks ago. Inspector shows up right when I'm leaving for lunch. I told him I'd be back in 5 minutes. I got back in about 3 minutes, he was gone, everything was stickered-Electrical and plumbing included! The guy couldn't have even walked in, what a joke. And we did a lot of extra structural stuff "just in case" we ended up with a real stickler.MD
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That inspector was hungry! I never thought of that. Probably should always ask for noon inspection!
Hey! One time my partner and I had a crew in a mall doin' tennant improvement work and to build a clothing store we had to frame a small corridor for the mall first. So the mall guy says "hey, you guys want to give me a price on the one upstairs, just like it? Same layout, same print, everything."
So we frame both of them and call for framing inspection. The inspector looks at the one downstairs and starts to sign off on the permit and Roger says to him "wait, my partner is upstairs, the permit covers that one too". The inspector looks at him and says "ah, you've seen one, you've seen them all"! I'm not shittin' you. How we laughed at that over the next few jobs.
*Jim, I wish it did't happen this way but my last C. O. was sent via mail from a mere call to the inspector to tell him that I was ready for a site visit....OK, so he knows my work is pretty good but I like having someone else check it just the same!aj
*Yeah, that sounds familiar too. When I was really young I had an engineered septic system designed and installed. Part of the engineer's fee was for the "as built" certification he had to sign sayin' the system was, in fact, built the way he designed it. I called him to say he could come do the inspection and we'd backfill, and he said "go ahead and backfill, I'll drop this in the mail in the morning" (without ever making the 30 min. trip to inspect). What gets me is, I paid the guy! Good to see you back, by the way. - jb
*just butting in at the first place I find - right on Mongo - take your lumps and fix it - in the end you will be glad you did. I have never "won" when taking an apparent shortcut.
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One hour with a sawzall and fixing the truss layout is going to save you cutting both sides of almost every sheet of plywood. Trust me, cut your losses and fix it now! You'll sleep better too!
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bethh- cut the nails and simspon ties with a sawzall and metal blade. this doesn't take a great deal of time and is less effort than cutting each sheet to fit. be sure to follow the truss manufacturer's bracing and fastening schedule.
*A little over 3 monthes later, if you still need the total rise ...multiply total run(which is 1/2 total span)in feet by unit rise (in inches).Answer will be in inches.Convert to feet.House with 30ft. span and 8/12 pitch. 30 / 2 = 15ft. ; 15' x 8" =120" ; 120" = 10'0" rise.Hope you haven't gone w/o a roof waiting for the answer!Jeff
*A little snowy!
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always forgetting my ridge height formula can someone leave me a quick tip....