On some houses built in the twenties, the 1 to 3 ft next to the eaves is a flatter slope. What is that kind of roof called?
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Generally called a "sprung" roof. There are several here, mostly built by the same guy about 75 years ago. He also did flares at the bottoms of the walls.
Thanks. I am curious about what a flare at the bottom of a wall looks like.
>> I am curious about what a flare at the bottom of a wall looks like.<<Craig,The first drawing is a 12/12 and 8/12 combination. You can continue the 12/12 rafters down so that they don't stick past the overhang and give plenty of nailer for the 8/12 tails.The second drawing was from a while back using a 16/12 and 6/12 combination.Joe Carola
I am curious about what a flare at the bottom of a wall looks like...
This shows a flare on the main house walls (the side walls of the steps are just straight). The kick out is about 3-1/4".
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Edited 6/3/2007 3:36 pm ET by Ragnar17
Thanks. This has got me interested in these old details. For the last forty years around here everyone tried to remodel their old house to try and make it look like a new style. Now there seems to be interest in emphasizing the old features.
Are you talking about something like this?
My reprint books from the 1910s refer to this as a "Japanese roofline"; I don't know any other terms for it.View Image
That's it. Thanks
we have a number of american 4 squares, with hip roofs and the type of kick you describe----------------and a larger number of gable roofs with the same kick----we call them "bell-cast"-----as in "a bellcast,hip roof"-----or " a straight ,bell-cast gable"
stephen
This is interesting. Like everything in Carpentry theres several names for the same thing.
Here in Omaha, Nebraska most of these roofs are caused by new roof sheathing covering the original built into the eaves gutters. It is way cheaper to cover the original built in gutter and hang new K style gutter. Relining the old gutter is a lost art.
It ain't the re-lining that is so hard. Heck, we do many a year around here in KY, they HAVE to be, Historical Commission says so.
What can be a real challange is re-building the lookouts, and rotted cornice and often re-sloping them away from what were cistern feeders and bringing the water to a logical downspout location.
I've only been at it 3 yrs. and have already lost countof how many we have completed since then.
Laying in the copper and soldering it all up, then replacing the first 2 or so courses of shingles is always a treat, cuz we know all that is left is the downspout leaders, and tear down the scaffold...and then on to the next one.Parolee # 40835
Sphere and ALL
Do you have any pictures showing how these flared rooflines were framed?
Edited 6/2/2007 6:53 pm ET by Ragnar17
I've never framed one. Just repair what was mentioned.
I imagine if I did, I'd be using wider rafter stock and sawing away the wallow for a sweep, and for a flat transition, I think scabbing on along side traditional trusses or rafters is the way to go.
But hey...I ain't a framer,no more.
Parolee # 40835
Edited 6/2/2007 6:59 pm ET by Sphere
Here's one where the rafter tails were obviously cut with a curve -- it's the only one I've seen like this, though!
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Edited 6/3/2007 2:25 am ET by Ragnar17
My Mom's house was this style. If I remember right, there was a small (rafter?) nailed on the side of the main rafter which ended at the top plate. A level 2x was nailed to this. There was a small fascia and t&g soffit.
Thanks for the info, Craig.
I've never had the opportunity to see one of these "Japanese" roofs while it was taken apart. However, I've assumed that they would be constructed somewhat in the way you describe. It seems the "base" roof would be a simple hip, with the rafters striking the top plates. The lookouts would receive the beaded soffit also as you describe. The last piece (as I envision it) would have to be a "hypotenuse" connecting the outboard end of the lookout to some point a few feet up the main rafters. I'm guessing that this "hypotenuse" piece might have been cut with a concave curve to make the graceful flare.
Do you remember seeing any curves cut into the "small" rafter you mentioned?
Edited 6/3/2007 2:17 am ET by Ragnar17
The one I saw was all straight. I remember being suprised because it sure gave the illusion of being a curve.
Thanks for the reply. It sure looks curved, doesn't it? Maybe the shingles help to form a fillet radius between the two rafters.
Here's a scan from a 1917 home catalog. Notice second sentence: "The heavy overhang and Japanese roof...." FWIW, the manufacturer, Aladdin, was from Bay City, Michigan.
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On a couple I've worked on here, the rafters were about 12/12 or steeper ands sat on the top plate of the wall, then a secondary kicker at say 8/12 was tied to them for the kick-out sskirt and overhang
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This is a very popular style in the south. As Stephen said earlier, our term for it is Bellcast or just the Bell.
It is mainly used in my area on high pitched roofs in order to maintain a 2' overhang without dropping the soffit below 7'.
When built on a lower sloped roof it takes on that oriental roof look.
Here's some pic's of a fire damaged roof I'm working on with the bell framing. The main roof is 7/12 with a 4/12 Bell. Just a 4/12 birdsmouth sistered to the rafter.
I like the bell term. Here, we call it a gull's wing or a witch's hat, but full knowing it is not the right terminology for it.
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>>witch's hat
All the way out here we use that term for a faceted or round (conical) roof on a turret. Lotsa Victorian houses in San Francisco, Seattle, elsewhere that have 'em.
LOL, maybe Queen Anne and Queen Victoria were witches...
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Thanks a lot for posting the pics -- I appreciate it.
It is mainly used in my area on high pitched roofs in order to maintain a 2' overhang without dropping the soffit below 7'.
That makes a lot of sense. It's funny how even what appears to be ornamental really has a purpose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Relining the old gutter is a lost art.
Because the HO doesn't want to bear the cost of being the custodian of a piece of history.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
Oh, I remember that.
Thanks for reminding me , I need to burn pics of Ms. Hussy's job for her, she thinks she can get a tax break for the histerical repairs , or she just wants the pics for nostalgia.Parolee # 40835
Thanks for the info. I am pretty sure the house in question was framed that way, but I am glad I know about this because it might explain some future puzzle.
I've always heard it referred to as a broken pitch roof.
Thanks for the info. On the house in question, a bank appraiser had never seen that kind of roof and wondered if it were a flaw. He requested the buyer find a carpenter who would reassure him it was built that way.I think I better avoid using "sprung" or "broken" to avoid confusion. :)
Craig,
My fir at drawing I didn't draw in the bottom of the 12/12 overhang in without cutting the bottom of the rafters. You don't have to rip the bottom, just leave full stock.
Interesting. Thanks