I watched a neighbor get a new roof last week.
It is an L-Shape Ranch.
They installed Laminate Composite shingles.
The roofers used a half-weave closed valley.
I watched them and the way they started shingling was to do the valley first and use one full shingle in the valley from the bottom to the top.
Then they shingled the field.
The valley was their starting point for each row (not the rake).
Is this a common method?
Is this a recommended way to do it?
Thanks for any input. I’m going to shingle my roof next week and would like to try this method.
^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Replies
So what is a half-weaved valley? Kinda like a half-azzed whore? LOL
I'll repeat back what I think you are saying to see if I understand you.
They shingled one side of the valley first, racking the pattern of the shingle layout into the valley and shingling away from it.
Then they shingled the other side of the valley, lapping over the previous and cutting the tips for a straight line.
Yes it is common and is called a lapped valley. I think it is better than a woven valley in many ways.
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lol....yes that is what I was trying to say.Thanks I appreciate your advice.Have a good day^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Today I was looking at drip edge at Home Depot.I saw one style which allows the shingles to overhang the facia by about an incheAnd I saw another style of drip edge which does not have this overhang.I assume the drip edge with the over hang is preferred as this allows the water to drip down and keep it off of the facia board.Would you use the drip edge with the 1" overhang ?Thanks!^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I would certainly use that style.
The drip edge with the overhang sells for about 22 cents per foot.The plain drip edge with no overhang is about 18 cents per foot.Whoever did my roof years ago used the drip edge with no overhang and they just went ahead and stuck the shingles out about 3/4 of an inch past the drip edge.Thanks for your input.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Use the drip edge with the overhang and also hang the shingles over the drip edge. It should tell you this on the shingle package. I go about 1/2" on the eaves and 1/8 on the rakes.
Thanks I appreciate it.I wish I'd paid better attention when I had jobs doing this in the past. I was just a helper and now I'm trying to figure this stuff out and you guys on this site really help a schmoe like me who's trying to do this a save a few bucks.Anyway The book I got said use nail length in which the nails barely protrude through the roof sheathing.The boolk says the more the nail protrudes into the attic space, the more of a chance it will be warmer in the attic in the winter and the nail in the sheathing and above will be cold, therefore moisture & condensation will form on the metal nail in the attic space and drops of water will fall possibly leading to problems.I don't know how legit this is, but it's something I read over the weekend.thanks again to everyone.
^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
If there is going to be condensation on the nail tips, there is too much moisture in the atticc and the house has another serious problem to be dealt with re venting, insulation, and VB.The amt o0of resistance to nails pulling out is directly proportional to how much wood the nail displaces, so it should fully protrude thru the sheathing except where theree are exposed rafter tails.
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Are you planning on stripping the roof or doing a layover?
I'm guessing that maybe you have more than one roof on your house already, reason being is the use of the square style drip edge, it's fairly common to see this used where there has been an overlay done, as a way to hide the old drip edge........
..or it could have originally been a cedar shingle roof and they stripped those off and used the square style drip to cover the edge of the ply that was layed over the old skip sheathing used for cedar shingle roofs.
Geoff
P.S. nail length will depend on how many layers, single layer means 1 1/4" nails , more than one layer means longer nails.
Edited 6/4/2007 8:06 pm ET by Geoffrey
Thanks for the info and yes I am going to strip off all the old shingles.A 20 yard dumpster will be delivered tomorrow. I'm hoping it will hold all of the old shingles. I have two layers of asphalt three tab shingles on one side plus a built up layer underneath those.It will cost about $300 to $350 for the dumpster. They will leave it for 7 days. After that, I pay $7 per day for additional use.And they will only take construction debris. No couches, paper trash, household trash etc. No grass clippings. They charge $27 per ton at the county landfill for construction debris.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
1-1/4" is what we used for nail-overs. 1" was for new work
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The book says snap a chalk line in the valley and use the line as a guide to cut the last shingle to length.The book says to cut the shingle prior to installing it and keep nails back at least six inches from the center of the valley.The book also says to trim the corner off the top of each "last shingle" (the corner in the valley), as the corner is likely to "catch water" and result in a leak.The book says to squirt some roof caulking in that area where the corner has been trimmed. Apparently you trim away 1 to 2 inch radius from the corner of the shingle.I'm just wondering if this is a common practice to trim the corner of the shingle being placed in the valley.The next shingle above covers the trimmed corner and you don't see it.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Three ways to cut a valley.The slowest is to mark the shingle and cut it before laying it in. This can also be the least acurate for a neat job.There are guys who use tin snips as shingle cutters.
Use mine to cut a shingle and I'll throw you and your tools off the roof! MY tin snips are for cutting metal.I lay the shingles aross the valey all the way to the top, then snap a chalk line where I want the cut, then I use a hook blade knife to cut them on the line. A straight knife would destroy the underlayer of materiaal and leave you a leak. But a hook blade takes a technique toi handle. Maybe the guy who wrote that book never lernt how.there is another way of tackling this valley cut thing. Photos in a thread a month ago, more or less.You lay a shingle with the butt on the cut line you chalked, then lay tip of shingle just to that line, so you never have to cut in the valley
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SweetI found message number 88685.22 from Stilletto which shows what you're referring to.Thanks for the info !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
That's it. Noq how you gonna get up before it gets hot and hump shingles after staying up late studying?
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lol....the book says to hire a hispanic dude named Manuel Labor
^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
We've been on the roof for a day and a half and almost have one side stripped of shingles.I hired two helpers and one quit after and hour and a half.My roof is sheated with 1 X 8 's and they are nailed with two and sometimes three nails per rafter.All of these nails have pulled out slightly - anywhere from 1/16 to 1/8Is is necessary to reset each and every one of these?There are hundreds of these.Also, do you pull the old roofing nails which were used to nail down the orginal first piece of tar paper.I have a lot of those too.Thanks for the advice you've given me on this job. I feel like I owe you a consulting fee.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Shingle nails left in tarpaper get left in. When they have shingle left under them, they get pullled. A cirved claw hammewr and the right technique is the way I do that.The sheathing nails need to be tightened. Couple hours work for a guy with a hammer.
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Thanks, much appreciated
^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I had planned on installing 5-6 roof vents for attic ventilation.These are the roof vents I bought at home depot for $5.00 each and they are aluminumYou cut a 9 X 9 hole in the sheating to install these.Now I'm scratching my head and assuming these are not going to work as my old roof is 1 X 8 sheating.If I cut up all or most of the 1 X 8 I'm going to have to do some kind of framing just to support the cut out section.I think I'll look at other alternative for roof ventilation.Do you agree?^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
>>>>>>>>>>>You cut a 9 X 9 hole in the sheating to install these. Now I'm scratching my head and assuming these are not going to work as my old roof is 1 X 8 sheating.Cut your holes so that they are centered on the gap between two boards - in other words, cut half way thru two boards. Or, cut 9" out of one board and reaching thru the hole, screw a 1x scab to bottom of the cut board and the ones above and below it on each side of the hole.http://grantlogan.net/
Thanks, my brain is fried from working in the sun and also trying to keep one step ahead of my helpers.Thanks and what you recommended makes a lot of sense and I'll give it a shot.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I put down my tar paper and used "grip tite" nails with the 1" diameter plastic caps.They protrude upward about 1/8 to 3/16.Will they show through the shingles?^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
No, they won't telegraph through. At least they shouldn't. That's SOP around here for roofers. I used them on my roof to hold tar paper down for two weeks until I got to shingle it. They don't show on my finished roof. And for the new synthetic underlayments, I believe they are the required/ reccommended fastener.
Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
CU covered it
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I realize i misunderstood the OP's shingling plan, (and that i'm butting in <G>), but i pictured it like this: a shingle laid across the valley, centered, and lapped like normal up to the ridge, with the field shingles started at a point just off the valley. Open-valley seems the roofer-preferred method, but i don't care for the way they look, like mixing paisley and stripes. Stiletto and Guertin's Long-Island method is a bit jarring, too, with the pattern on the archy shingles running sideways. And i'd like to avoid all that arm-numbing cutting with a hook blade. It seems to me this misconception of mine has the advantages of not requiring any cutting whatsoever, that no metal is used or will end up showing, and that all the lines on the shingles run downhill instead of sideways (as with the underlying L-I method shingle).Anyone wish to comment on my idea for using the same materials in the valley, laid perpendicular to the valley crease, with matching shingles laid with their corner starting at the crease? Any faults with this idea you can see?The other question i have is about the minimim offset sideways on shingles. The steeper a roof is, the less offset there is if you start at the valley with a full shingle each time. Potential problem?
Are you doing your roof yourself?I got in over my head on this roofing job I'm in and I should not have tried to do this myself.I should have hired a roofing company.It's a long story but I didn't schedule things properly and the first night I left my roof wide open and if it would have rained wednesday night I would have been in a lot of trouble.Thankfully it didn't rain but this is just too big a job for me and a couple of high school boys.Good luck with yours though !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Memo to self:Next time I decide to shingle a roof and I hire a helper, be sure to tell him DO NOT grab ahold of a 4" flue pipe and pull on it as hard as you can and pull a section of flue pipe out the top of the roof"Live and learn.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Sorry to hear you're overwhelmed, but not to fear....that's what blue tarps and lath strips are made for! I work alone for the most part, so i strip just one plane at a time; i'm slow, but i'm chicken. Good luck with the remainder.I'm not presently doing my own roof, though i've shingled several for myself and others...only asphalt so far. Mostly i'm thinking about the next roof, since i actually enjoy roofing and i'm always looking to try new and improved.
What about the valley which does not involve cutting shingles?Per Stilletto in:88685.22I think this is the best thing I've seen since sliced bread.Wouldn't it work for you?^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Yep, very slick method, except for showing horizontal shadow lines in the valley between the field shingle corners. I'm so damned picky, eh? <G>
>>>>>>>>>except for showing horizontal shadow lines in the valley between the field shingle corners.That's only going to occur on certain brands of shingles. In most cases, my picky eye doesn't notice it from the ground, but I do pick up slight variations in the shingles when they're cut. Regarding your earlier question about the offset getting narrower on steeper valleys: We normally cut some off the other end of the shingle to maintain a 5" stagger. It's much easier to cut the end of each shingle as they're laid vs. a clean line down the valley after they're laid.http://grantlogan.net/
Thanks for confirmation on sometimes needing to cut the first shingle out of the valley. The shadow line was partly a beauty issue, but i was also thinking that some of the shadows lines are facing uphill, making a place, albeit small, for ice or debris to hang up. I think i'll have to find someone who needs a roof to experiment with my new valley ideer...
Here is an article about the valley.http://www.roofer911.com/roofing_valleys.htmThe article shows a different way of laying the shingle in the valley on the "cut side".I'm going to try this on my house.Good luck !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Yes, that's the article i mentioned in post 34. Good for you for providing a link; a picture is worth a 1000 words!
I was curious if the copywrite was respected when it was copied to that other site
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At the bottom of the article it links to FHB and it says:Article: "Four Ways to Shingle a Valley"
Author: Mike Guertin
Issue/Date: #152, December 2002/January 2003
Pages: 64-71
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Reprinted with permission © 2002, The Taunton Press, Inc.
Yeah, I know that credit is given, but whether they had permission to reprint was my Q. normally the statement would be "Reprinted by permission....
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???Long day, Paul? <G>
I recently shingled my roof and wanted to relay a couple of experiences I had as a novice.My roof had hail damage in April 2006 and I am with State Farm. My roof was a total loss (although at first they only wanted to replace one side of the roof on the house which is a ranch style)I asked State Farm if they would pay me to replace my own roof and they said "yes - just keep track of your hours and your expenses".I'll round off the numbers.State Farm said my roof loss was $4,000.My deductible is $1,000They looked at the roof in May '06 and immediately wrote me a check for $1,100.They would pay me the remainder after the new roof had been installed.The remainder was to be $1,900.I got started during the first week of June and finished the job three weeks later.Yes, I'm slow.I bought a brand new Ridgid nail gun for $250 at Home Depot and I thought it worked really well.Anyway, when I finished I wrote a nice letter to State Farm. I sent them my hours and my receipts.In my letter I told them there were additinoal repairs and I wanted to raise the amount of my claim.I didn't hear anything for a couple of week and I called State Farm. These are the things I had asked additional moneys for and State Farm's response:1. Replaced rotted roof decking. 85 feet of rotted 1 X 8 roof sheating was replaced. State Farm refused to pay for any of this.2. Added five roof vents to a roof which had never had these (it does have three gable end vents already but I think it needed more venting). State Farm refused to pay for any of this.3. I had a minor roof leak after the april 06 hail storm and it had leaked through the dining room ceiling. State farm agreed to pay for repainting the ceiling.4. It rained and the roof leaked WHILE I was putting the new roof on. And I damaged the ceiling in my living room. State Farm agree to pay me for replacing 4' X 4' ceiling sheetrock.State Farm paid me $600 for these two items (#3 and #4).5. The last thing I'm asking for is additional money from State Farm for removing more layers of shingles than we were aware of. I also asked for additional money for removing a layer of tar and gravel.State Farm said they would pay me if I send pictures and I am doing so. They would not accept digital pictures.I am going to ask for one more thing. I took the time to pull each and every old nail and staple from the roof.This alone took many hours. I don't know if they will pay extra for this or not.I spent $3,600 just in materials and out of pocket expenses.So I'm at a point where State Farm is covering my expenses. One of my problems is that I worked so many hours on the roof - I'm losing money on this screwy deal.Summary, as a home owner I would not go through this again. I would simply pay the deductible and let a roofing crew come in and do the roof in one day.edited to change a dollar figure ^^^^^^ a Smith & Wesson beats four AcesEdited 7/13/2007 8:47 am by mrfixitusa
Edited 7/13/2007 8:50 am by mrfixitusa
1)
Insurance is not responsible for repairs, only for damages from the storm event. 2)
Insurance is not responsible for upgrades and improvements, only for damages.3)
you may have been lucky on that one - something that could be interpreted different ways.4)
You definitely got lucky on that one! It is the roofers responsibility to make sure that no damage occurs to the rest of the house while work is in progress. 5)
The time you took and money it cost you had a lot to do with your lack of experience roofing. I recall the thread advising you how and I had the impression that you were taking ten times as long on some things as it would have taken me back in my prime. There is no reason State Farm should be blamed for that. There is a reason for hiring subs sometimes. I have had several times in the past when an owner wants to help me or have me hire a son to work. Given the choice of time and materials with their own work thrown in vs a firm bid with me doing it all, they invariably choose to help and invariably end up costing MORE money after putting their long hard hours in. A specialized pro makes some things look easy and can be finished doing a job while the DIY is still figuring out how to attack it.It is legitimate for SF to pay more for removing extra layers of roofing since removal is the industry standard and there was no reasonable way to forecast that cost. And it is reasonable for them to require evidence. It is unreasonable for you to expect them to pay you by the hour for inexperienced performance.
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Good points !I can't argue, I walked into this job thinking I would work in the morning while it's cool.Then get off the roof and come back in the evening when it was cooler and I would take my time and enjoy doing the work.It just didn't happen that way ! I got in way over my head !Enclosed is a picture of when it all hit me and I was "shoveling the old roof off the house"Thanks again for your input.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
that was a bigazz roof to be taking on by yourself.
View Image Once when a follower was done up with a headache and incapable of motion, hoping his associate would comfort him and perhaps afford him a sip of tea, he said, "There are people who are sick in that way every morning, and go about their affairs," and then marched off about his. -Ellery Channing Remembers Henry Thoreau
I laid all the shingles myself but I had laborers helping with the tear-off.But it was a mess because they would work one day and I would pay them at the end of the day and then it would rain the next day.So I would go up and work for a few hours and then try again the next day.I reported 140 hours to State Farm for my work.I paid laborers for 62 hours.I'm guessing a professional roofing company would have done it in half the amount of time.But I feel I spent more time "prepping" the roof than the typical roofing crew.We literally pulled every old roofing nail and staple. And we took the time to pound in the old nails in the roof sheathing. There were hundreds and thousands of these and they were "popping" up 1/8 to 1/4I went to some additional expense in installing ice shield on all eaves and in the valleys.I went to additional expense in using two layers of tar paper also.(the roof is a 3 1-12 pitch)The house is about 1260 square feet built in 1957^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
"the roof is a 3 1-12 pitch)"Not sure what that means
3/12 maybeor three and a half/twelve?It only looks like a 2/12 in the pictur. 3/12 is fine for shingles
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I get in trouble if I write these messages without wearing my glasses.I meant to say the pitch of the roof is 3 - 12I thought about something else you mentioned yesterday.You indicated I, as the installer, am responsible for any roof leaks while I am installing a new roof.I agree.For the record, I had tar paper on the roof when it leaked.I messed up by not getting the tar paper on the valleys properly and this resulted in a leak and damage to my ceiling.Thanks for your input.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I used ice shield on the eaves. I paid $50 for a 50 ft roll 3 ft wide at home depot.I used the ice shield in the valleys also.On the rest of the roof I used a double layer of 15 lb tar paper.I paid $15 per roll at Home Depot.The directions on the bundle of shingles said to use 15 lb tar paper.Thanks again.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
Yeah, looks like a couple of tears in the 15# in the valley. easy to do.
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I used the ice shield in the valleys also.
For future reference: put the ice barrier in the valley to dry it in rather than felt.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I'm wearing Mr. T's pants.
Good point - I'll file that away for the next time.I really got in over my head and realized how much I don't know.For example, the tar paper you see in the picture was put down because it was starting to rain. I had not pulled all the nails from the decking.I had to take it back up to finish pulling all the nails.I had a lot of those kinds of problems.Another example.I paid about $375 for a dumpster to throw the old shingles into.They allow one week of use. After that you pay additional fees.It was all we could do to get all the shingles, dirt, gravel, and nails shoveled into the dumpster in seven days.I'm cheap and did not want to pay for even one extra day.Another problem I had from my inexperience was the day the guy delivered the dumpster.He backed it up to my house, unloaded it and left.The driver should have placed it directly under the roof so that shingles and debris would fall off the roof and straight down into the dumpster.The driver did not back up far enough and after a day or two (he should have backed up 2-3 feet more) and I used some boards to make a "ramp" from the roof into the dumpster.Live and learn I guess. ^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
He backed it up to my house, unloaded it and left.
Thats how they normally do it!
The driver should have placed it directly under the roof so that shingles and debris would fall off the roof and straight down into the dumpster.
Did you tell him that?
The driver did not back up far enough and after a day or two (he should have backed up 2-3 feet more) and I used some boards to make a "ramp" from the roof into the dumpster.
You really think the driver should have returned to back the dumpster up some more? Man your right, you were in way over your head!
Next time, if there ever is a next time, I'd use one layer of 30# felt instead of two 15's. 15# paper aint worth a damn for much.
Doug
Thats how they normally do it!
That's why I don't work on engines/transmissions etc. I don't have the right equipment and I don't know what I'm doing and I don't know what to ask for if I do think I have the problem deduced.
I just go do what I do to make money to pay the bill to the pro.
View Image
http://grantlogan.net/
I'm wearing Mr. T's pants.
That's why I don't work on engines/transmissions etc
No shid!
I worked for a farmer while in high school and between the two of us it was 50/50 on whether or not we could find the spark plugs on an engine, man we didn't have a clue when it came to mechanics! Farmer would always say, "we might as well be looking up a dead horses azz cause we don't have any idea what were looking at" Truer words were never spoken, I hate mechanic work and am more then glad to let the guy that does do it!
Doug
Edited 7/14/2007 7:36 pm ET by DougU
you and I have more than one thing in common.
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"Farmer would always say, 'we might as well be looking up a dead horses azz cause we don't have any idea what were looking at'"
That's interesting. I once had a young man working for me. An 18 year old still on the farm.He was raised with the philosophy "If it's broke, take it apart and fix it. It is not necessary to know ahead of time what you are doing. Take it apart and figure it out."Of course, that was 25 years ago. Electronics makes that approach more problematic today.
Rich BeckmanComing to the Fest? Don't forget pencils!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rich , My family had a saying "Someone figured out how to build it , you are smart enough to figure out how and why it works" That was a qoute from my great-great-grandfather , passed down for 5 generations now. But as you said, that was before electronics."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
If it's broke, take it apart and fix it. It is not necessary to know ahead of time what you are doing. Take it apart and figure it out."
Rich
That may be true but you have to WANT to do it, and I didnt see any of that "want" in our eyes!
When I was younger and poorer I always thought that I had to do the work myself but I've come to the realization that if I had to get a part time job at McD's I'd be better off, that and my "repair" never worked as good as the unrepaired.
Doug
Did you have many misses when nailing the shingles or did you cover it with a layer of OSB first?
Is that yer toy Matchbox car parked there in front of the place?
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."- Thoreau
Edited 7/14/2007 10:28 am ET by rez
Yes, it was.I sold it about a week ago to a guy who works at Boeing.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I had no idea that was such a low pitch and don't remember the BUR roof under it all. It was crazy for the second roofer to have gone over that gravel with shingles!Did you use I&W underlay or at least two ply the tarpaper?
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Your first problem was that the insurer should have paid you the damage estimate as soon as the claim was made and you agreed to the payment - not $1100 but $3000.After that the repair was your problem and the insurer should not even be talking to you.---Usually a homeowner gets an estimate from a contractor and then considers if the homeowner can do it cheaper.
Yesterday we finished stripping one half of the roof. It had two layers of asphalt three tab shingles and the bottom layer (third layer) was a gravel roof.We used prybars, flat shovels, and a shingle removal tool to pry the shingles loose.The roof is sheated with 1 X 8's and they are spaced about a 1/4 " or even 1/2 " apart. There are gaps between all boards.To allow for expansion I assume.Anyway, as we were working yesterday I know we knocked a lot of dirt, nails, gravel, and debris into the attic.I hate to think how much debris fell into the attic - it was a lot.My question is, Is there some way we could have stripped the roof to prevent knocking all that debris into the attic?There was a tremendous amount of dirt and gravel.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I work from top to bottom so the debris is moving down over the tarpaper, then sweep, the pull nails, then sweep again. you still end up with a lot though
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Today we did the north side roof and used your method and we got a lot less debris into the attic.Thanks for your tip on this.Today we removed one layer of shingles which were installed five years ago. These were 20 or 25 year warranty three tab shingles.When we tore out the old valley (closed valley - half weave) we found that a three foot wide piece of ice shield had been glued to the roof sheating.We COULD NOT remove it. It is really stuck tight.After we tried to pull it off, scrape it off, pry it off, with no success, we decided to just leave it.I'll put new ice shield over the top of it I guess.Does that sound appropriate?^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
yes. Pretty much the only way to remove it is to remove the plywood it is stuck to and there is no good reason to take it up anyways.
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thanks again !^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
"My question is, Is there some way we could have stripped the roof to prevent knocking all that debris into the attic?"You can put plastic down in the attic before the work. Then all that debris is easily cleaned up.
Rich BeckmanYou are here.
I found message number 88685.22 from Stilletto which shows what you're referring to.
One word of caution, that method is for laminate, or what are commonly called Architectural shingles, It is not to be used with regular three tab shingles.
If you notice there are no cut-outs on laminate shingles.
I'm guessing you're using 3-tab shingles because you mention 3 bundles/sq......most(but not all) laminates are 4 bundles/sq........ just a word of caution that could save you some headaches.
I envy your tipping fees.....I pay $425 for a 20 yd. box (3 tons included w/drop-off and pick-up) with each additional ton @ $90/ton.
Geoff
>>>>>>>>>>>most(but not all) laminates are 4 bundles/sq.40 year and above are 4 or more bundles/sq. Most of the laminates used in this area are 30 year, so the 3 bundle/sq size is the norm.http://grantlogan.net/
I'm using Tamko 30 year warranty architectural shingles. I ordered 22 squares and received 66 bundles.I paid $16.20 per bundle delivered.I believe these shingles are manufactured right here in Kansas where I'm from. I think they are made in Phillipsburg kansasAs far as dumping fees, the breakdown is as follows for the 20 yard dumpster:$75 delivery$128 for 7 days of use$135 estimated dump fee (5 tons X $27 dump fee)$338 totalIf I fill it more than once, they charge $128 for each time they dump it, plus $27 per ton.Here the fee is $27 per ton for construction debris only. You cannot have household trash, bags of grass clippings, furniture, etc.Regular household trash costs you $54 per ton.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I've a dedicated pair of Malco BIG snips, just for laminate shingle cuts, they were dull as a froe and I had nothing with me sharpen them that day. My good Malcos, I can resharpen often, by taking them apart and honeing the flats on the back of the cutters.
Hook blades can take a toll on the elbow in cold weather. And can tear a shingle when hot, So I use them more for 3 tabs and felt. BTW, I found for UDL and similar synthetics, cut it with snips like a tailor cuts fabric...don't pump the handles, just glide along and zip. And really sharp scissors will do Rubber better than anything that way.
I am used to buying snips often..I get a month or two out of a Pr. of Wiss reds. The big snips by Malco are for long cuts across wide sheets, reds are for trimming cuts mostly. Greens are for when I am upside down or backwards to how I need the waste to peel away. Those last a lot longer. Don't own Yellows."you are dead a lot longer than you are alive"Noah Aaron MacKenzie, 1990.
It is advised that you clip the top corners of the cut valley shingles. The purpose of this is to prevent water that is dripping down the cut edge from following the top edge of the shingle, moving sideways out of the valley and then going down the back side of the shingle and onto the sheathing. This is a very rare occurence but I have seen it happen. The clipped top edge is cheap insurance. I just bend the top corner with my fingers and break it off.
Concerning tar, caulk and other sealants: You should not have to use these unless you are in an unusual situation or you have to repair a flaw and the repair does not have to last more than a few years. The sealants will either do nothing or will need to be refreshed periodically. It won't be so easy the next time. If you use tar or other sealants indiscriminantly it will make it hard to pinpoint a leak in the future. Try to do the roof and all the flashing correctly and you won't need sealants. Of course there are particular situations that call for them but these places really need professional attention.
Edited 6/4/2007 9:55 pm ET by Schelling
Interesting What you are saying makes a lot of sense.Thanks for the info^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I can't even imagine why somebody would want the L shaped edge when the whole purpose is to get the water AWAY from running down the fascia
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I got my permit at City Hall this morning.They asked me "what kind of shingles" and "how many squares" and I told her and paid the permit fee of $41.The shingles got delivered while I was gone and I bought 22 square which is 66 bundles.To my surprise They were sitting on two pallets in the grass beside the driveway. I called the roofing supply distributor and asked why they were not lifted up onto the roof as we agreed.He said they tried but were unable because of two trees, one on each side of the driveway.^^^^^^
a Smith & Wesson beats four Aces
I guess we know what you'll be doing the rest of the afternoon then...studiously, strenuously, avoiding those pallets, eh? LOL
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