I am in the process of renovating/modernizing my house, which was built from a kit (Great Northern Homes of Glens Falls, NY). My father in law built it (assembled it?) in 1948 after returning from WWII.
The house is a Cape Cod and I want to make one larger room out two small bedrooms. I do not want to totally blow the intervening wall out, just create a 6′ passageway.
My question is…can I build either a double 2×6 or double 2×8 header and also beef up the 2×4 studs..or should I go whole hog and put 2 x 10’s on the outside of the wall, beef up the 2x4s with vertical, cut – down 2×8’s, and fill in the 6′ opening with double 2 x 6’s.
This is a load bearing wall, 2×4 construction, total of 15′ long. the upstairs is going to be an office.
Other ideas are welcome!
Replies
You should talk to an architect about this. Whatever you do will have to meet current code and the header for that 6' opening has to be sized correctly. You may also need to do something under the floor to carry the loads.
Since this is a kit built home, you might have framing issues that are different than stick built.
Should I presume that this wall is running perpendicular to the roof ridge?
And that the ridge comes to bear right over where the new 6' opening will be?
How does the stairwell run relative to the above?
Is the floor system placing the floor joists so they are acting as rafter ties?
How wide is the house?
Do other elements like chimney penetrate floors, the wall, and the roof?
What size are the rafters and the floor joists?
What snow loads are you compelled to design for?
There may be other questions, but those are some of the basics needed to make a rough guess for you.
Got any pictures?
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Let me see if I can answer all the pertinent questions.
1. on this Cape there two bedrooms on the first floor, two on the second. I want to put a opening between the two rooms on the first floor.
2. This wall runs parallel to the roof ridge line. and is currently built using 2x4's on approximately 16" centers. I say approximately, because they are 4' "prefab" assemblies that are bolted together. Wall is 8'. I was going to leave the two top-plates in place. If I remove them then I obviously pick up another 3+ inches (these 2x4s are closer to 1-5/8 x 3-3/4) thus giving me room to put in 2 x 12's (with a plywood sandwich)
3. This wall sits on the floor joists and directly above a 12" steel I beam supported by a 6" diameter lally column. (I do have access in the basement to add additional blocking under any additional stud work in order to transfer loads directly to the I beam)
4. the ceiling joists meet on top of this wall, and yes I was planning on not one, but two support walls to hold the ceiling up while building this header
5. There is no chimney penetrating the house envelope.
6. the stairwell (double stairwell from the basement and up to the second floor) is in the exact center of the house (directly over the aforementioned Lally column.
7. The house is in western New Jersey, we can get a fair amount of snow although the roof pitch is fairly healthy. (maybe 8 in 12)
9. the House is 24' wide, second floor subfloor appears to be tongue-in-groove 1" x 4".
10. When I removed a closet from a different corner of the room i was struck by how light the 2 x 4's were...compared to "modern" 2x4's but in retrospect that may be because the older 2x4's had a much lower moisture content.
11. Yes I was planning on building the header out of dimensional lumber, using 1/2" plywood to get the necessary width..along with the liberal use of construction adhesive.
12. I can take pictures tonight.
EXCELLENT!The only thing left for me to assume is that the floor above this is open. In other words, there is not another wall directly over it that might be transferring roof load to this wall in question.If that is correct, then a doubled 2x10 with ply sandwiched would be more than adequate for this span.If the roof load does transfer down, i.e. directly or roundabout via kneewalls, then an additional on site engineering review might be in order. At the worst, you would nee a pair of LVLs 1-3/4" x 11-1/4" stitched together to carry it all, IMO. Your local AHJ may still require engineering anyway, to permit thisIn either case, you would also want to make use of that underfloor access to place blocking tight directly under the jack studs that support the ends of this header.If you are as complete, careful and precise in thinking this through and doing the work as you are in providing these details, you will do fine.The photos would still be a help. views of back side or placement of kneewall or anything else might still help you find comments here with helpful advice. I'd say that about half the time we read questions like yours, when we actually see the photos, there is something else pertinent to the question that becomes apparent to the eye. Yours could be likely to do that because of it being a bolt-together kit. I have worked on a couple of those and found some details "interesting" to say the least. Do keep your top plates continuous to maintain that integrity.I believe that some of those old kits were made with cedar which would explain the light weight of the studs.
But cedar is more brittle and has less structural strength for horizontal members such as floor joists and roof rafters.
One way to tell is to sand the wood to new cells and cedar will release a pleasant aromatic aroma. you would notice the same when cutting the wood.
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if it was me and I was (what I think your asking) going to build a 6'opening in a load bearing wall between two rooms....I'd first put up a temporary 2x4 wall close to the future cut in order to support the ceiling.
Then I'd cut the existing wall out to size. Put in one full stud on either side leaving 6'6" plus (depending on drywall/wood wrap) between them....make a dbl 2x 12 with 1/2 ply sandwiched header the same length as the distance between your studs.
The header will shove up tight to the underside of the top plate and double trimmer studs will go on either end to hold up the header.
This should be enough for any load or inspector check.
waiting on the revolution..............
I'd proceed as JJ has suggested but I'd also apply glue or construction adhesive on both sides of the plywood laminated into the new header.
I would skip the architect and talk with a structural engineer instead. In any case, I think you will find that installing a good header will take care of the problem. I would plan on a 3.5" thick Versalam, about 9" tall, but that's probably overkill. In the old days before engineered timber, I would have used two 2x8s with a layer of 1/2" plywood sandwiched between to provide stiffening and get things up to 3.5" thick. I would support either type of header with doubled 2x4s at each end.
The headers should run all the way between two existing studs, even if the opening doesn't extend that far. The existing studs then become what is known as "king" studs for framing the opening. Sandwiching some plywood between the king studs and new support studs is also a good idea.
did I miss the post where this guy provided the necessary information to determine what you guys are recommending?
Heck, he might have even mis-identified it as load bearing and he needs no header at all. I can't even tell which way this wall runs from his description so far. What is the load on it? You can't start to size a header without having any idea of that!
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I'm with you. The data provided is a little skimpy to be making any recommendations. I was guessing that since he said it was a 15' wall separating two bedrooms, in a post-war kit cape, it was probably parallel to the ridge, in which case, the load would be the floor above it. Installing temporary walls to support the load is good advice, but offering structural header information without a better description of the problem to a clearly inexperienced homeowner is probably not a good idea. Sure hate to see someone get hurt attempting to do something based on some well-intended advice.
"in which case, the load would be the floor above it. " Now see - here is an example of where assuming can get us - I was assuming that these two bedrooms are on the second floor because in the vast majority of capes I have worked on, there are two bedrooms upstairs and no more than one on the first floor but you read the same info and see the wall on the first floor....
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fact is that a two story home as described is a no brainer.... 12"header at 6'0" length supported by dbl trimmer/jack studs will be overkill and will support even a piano above it. A 12" header fits tight beneath the top plates and needs no cripples above it......it's faster and not that much more expensive.........Start your layout at an existing stud...you won't even have to buy any.(maybe one)..........
waiting on the revolution..............
O.P. "This is a load bearing wall, 2x4 construction, total of 15' long. the upstairs is going to be an office."
What are you guys agonizing about? That's a decent description. From that it's fair to assume a forty pound live load. A double 2X12-6', laminated with 1/2" plywood is plenty strong enough.
How many times have you made a header for a six foot slider on a first floor exterior wall? Doesn't that header carry both the second floor and the roof load?
As it now appears, yes, that is fine, but from initial information, no, you still had to make some assumptions. Maybe I have lived too long in the mountains where snowloads mean that the example you cite may not work. there are scenarios where the tributary area of floor and roof loading this could be as much as ten thousand pounds if it were a wide cape, a heavy snow load requirement and supporting kneewalls under the rafters. There are times when it turns out that someone has cobbled together a hole for a fireplace without properly headering so that other loads are already causing enough stress that the only thing holding it together is luck.I've seen too many questions like this here where further questioning or review of photos exposes some drastic piece of information that - OOOPs - was left out at the beginning. as it is, even with the update, I am only 95% certain of the answer.I just like to know what the particulars are before I give advice that could be bad. I you prefer to shoot from the hip, make yourself happy. meanwhile, no harm done in being carefull.
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I just like to know what the particulars are before I give advice that could be bad.
Me too but the quote that I lifted from the original post, his last sentence, made the situation clear enough for me.
If you prefer to shoot from the hip, make yourself happy. meanwhile, no harm done in being carefull.
I hardly think of a plywood laminated double 2X12 as shooting from the hip. Even if there was bearing wall directly above, carrying the ridge, that header would be plenty strong enough.
That's from my direct experience, building homes in the same locale as the OP, since the late 60's.
But you did not know what his locale was when you first posted the advice.
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He said that the kit came from Glens Falls, N.Y so I took that to mean the house was located in Upstate New York. As it turns out, it's in New Joisey, where there is significantly less snow than further north. Either way, the recommended header is mighty strong.
I don't argue that the accuracy of the answers given here is usually dependent on getting complete information but...when we can provide a simple practical solution which will cover all imaginable contingencies, why put the guy through all the interrogation?
And these other guys who always want to refer the question to an architect or an engineer...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
and the congregation said
AMEN!;)
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