Rough plumbing before floor sheathing?
Starting to frame a 500sq ft addition to our kitchen with bath/laundry. Foundation is raised to match the rest of the house. When the inspector signed off on the footings, she stated that she was not interested in crawling under the house to see the rough plumbing and would appreciate an early call to inspect before any floor sheathing is installed.
I had planned to finish all the framing first including the floor sheathing and work the plumbing from below, so this is a slight adjustment to my work plans, but not too difficult to accommodate. If you can help me out a little I would appreciate it. My questions are as follows:
1. Is it correct to assume that drain (ABS) lines will need to be stubbed up, and is it customary to leave them protruding 12″ beyond the height of the floor. This would seem to introduce additional difficulties in raising exterior walls where drain/vent lines intersect bottom plates and add additional fittings… Also, not sure how to treat the closet flange as I have always installed this from the top down to assure that the subfloor was not pieced together. How is this done before the subfloor is laid? (two piece flange?)
2. Where I am installing gas lines, should these also be stubbed up and tested. If I carry this too far it seems that this introduces two rough plumbing tests. A rough-rough test and a regular test when the rest of the lines are installed. Again it introduces more couplings into the system, where less is better. I want to accommodate the desires of my inspector so life goes smoothly, but…
3. On the supply lines (copper in my case) same questions apply…
4. How the heck is she going to inspect the flooring insulation, or should this also go in before the subfloor is installed
Dean (SoCal – Where everything is on a post tension slab, bridging an earthquake fault)
Replies
IMO, your inspector is being unreasonable. It's backwards to rough in lines before your protrusions are located. The only time I do that is when I'm replacing subfloor over a finished ceiling or in an old house with an inaccessible "crawl" space. Takes a heck of a lot of foresight to get everything just right.
If you don't find a written policy in line with this request, I'd politely argue the point.
Tim - Thank you. I will give her a call tomorrow to see if there is anything that can be negotiated.
Perhaps you could cut and dry fit the sheathing in the areas where the protrusions go, and work with just those pieces clamped in place to get the plumbing located right. Then unclamp it and put it aside for the inspection. That might even be easier than sheathing it all first, because you can still stand up and get access to both top and bottom quickly and easily.
Where in Southern California is this?
-- J.S.
Thanks for the suggestions. At $40/sheet I really didn't want to piece the floor together as I was planning to use t&g plywood flooring, but that may be the best alternative.
I am in Thousand Oaks, where I will probably be required that I locate all the electrical boxes before the walls are up... or nail the roof sheathing on the ground, so she doesn't have to use a ladder.
Thousand Oaks isn't so far away -- We're in Hollywood. With LADBS, plan check was hell, but the field inspector couldn't be nicer.
-- J.S.
Dean,
What is your minimum crawlspace height?
Jon Blakemore
Minimum code required was 18 inches to mud sill. I have a good three feet plus.
Dean
How fat is this inspector?
Joe H
"How fat is this inspector?".... LOL!!!!
Dean: If the crawl space is 3' high, your inspector is beyond lazy... She's somkin' crack!!!
Anyway, if she is that fat, you may want to turn your head when she goes down there because she may be showing crack...
Dean,
Your inspector is lazy. That being said just treat this as a slab where all the lines go in first.
Stub out 4" for toilet 6" high. This cuts off flush and the flange goes in after the finish floor. We frame a little different in the south. We nail down the bottom plate first, then raise walls and toenail studs. Should make it easier for you.
KK
When you call back, ask first about the insulation inspection--maybe the inspector will have a light bulb go off on the process. If not, ask how much subfloor you can put in, to properly rough in the plumbing--especially the gas.
Usually I leave some of the subfloor open during rough-in, but you need to install enough so that the closet flange can be set properly, etc. On most jobs there is a sheet or two left loose so that people can get into the crawl space or work more easily once down there, the inspector can see, etc. These are strategically located so that materials can be gotten in and out (10' sticks of pipe, etc.) and one in the middle of a bath or kitchen is usually good. The inspector is looking for basic things, like slope on your drains, correct fittings used, enough pipe hangers, etc. They don't need to see every joint and every spot. You should be able to get the drains and vents entirely in and under test for one inspection. Same with the gas--there's no point in doing two tests or inspections there. Access holes are key on remodels and additions, so figure out a couple of places where you can leave a sheet out or cut a manhole/peephole. With T&G you just block a joint or two and glue the access pieces down at the end.
Do all of your work to code--then it's up to the inspector to make the inspection and prove you wrong. If you do all of the plumbing and close up most of the floor but leave some access and have decent light down there, she can grumble about it but still has to make the inspection. I had an inspection in a crawl space yesterday, so I set up drop lights for the inspector, laid out a couple of sheets of ply for easy crawling, and sent him in there. In the past I have offered inspectors a pair of coveralls. Usually they just stick their head in and look at whatever's visible from there.
Anyway, you want to get along with the inspector, but don't let them hijack your work sequence. And, it can help if you look like PigPen when they show up for an underfloor inspection, that way they don't feel like the only one crawling.
Edited 11/19/2003 9:04:00 AM ET by davidmeiland
David -
Thanks for the advise. I spoke to her today to get a sense of her expectations. She explained that she would like to see only the rough drain line slopes as you explained and didn't need to see any venting nor the union to join the the new system to the old. 10ft head test required, but that can be done with only the main line. Sounds reasonable. She didn't seem to want to inconvience me too much, so that was good. She said to treat this as if it was a slab foundation and I would be fine.
On the gas she didn't need to see it tested until the framing was complete. Didn't discuss insulation.
Still learning...
Dean
Just as a follow up...
Inspector signed off on the rough plumbing and gas yesterday. Thanked me for not sheathing the floor and complimented me on a fine job. She gave me the OK to insulate, sheathe the floor and frame the rest of the structure. That should keep me busy for a while. Also, said the it was up to me to decide on the copper supply lines, before or after flooring, which ever I thought was easiest.
I guess I just needed to establish a little rapport...
Thanks for all your help
PS: just act like you never heard the comment. If she is the same inspector that comes back for plumbing, and she says something, make some excuse about the plumber's schedule and say sorry. Most building inspectors are pretty reasonable people, but some have a Napolean complex. Managing the scheduling of your job to save an inspector from doing their job is pushing it. If she get's nasty, and you feel like reciprocating, just say you thought it was a joke! Your inspections may not go too well though...
Most inspectors are good, and do a tough job well. Some however.... I had one who refused to inspect some basement footings because the ground was muddy. Helloooooo.....Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator