I am getting ready to sell my 1960 vintage 1120 sq ft ranch style house about ten miles north of Berkeley, CA. I am sitting about 600 miles north and will go down to start renovations as soon as my renter evacuates (real soon now!!). The realtor took a quick tour of the place and sent me a long list of what he feels I should do to make it saleable. (It would appear that after doing all the remodeling he suggested, that I would probably make almost enough from the sale of the house to pay off the remodeling loan…).
One (of several) areas I differ is on the undesirablity of leaving the original 1960 lauan paneling in the living room. One realtor said to just paint it white. I think painted wood paneling painted white with the wood grain would look atrocious. The realtor I am having sell the house thinks I should remove it.
I happen to be very partial to wood, and the feel of warm wood color in the paneling was what helped convince me to buy the house in the first place (that, and the fact that it was one of the few houses at the time that I could afford with minimal driving distance to work). Plus pulling the paneling off and refinishing the wall will not be fun and I will have only a limited time to work on the place. So, from various people’s experiences, just how partial are buyers to plain white walls over nice, rich, 1960’s lauan paneling along one wall?
Replies
Leave it unless it is faded, stained, filthy or distressed. My parents house has that in one bedroom and along one wall in the family room. Most people say they like it when they visit. All that work removing it will probably have no effect on sale price or how long it is on the market.
I was in a similar situation - and my advice would be to leave it. Unless it is broken, has holes etc. I spent a lot of time & $$ to fix up a rental for sale only to have the buyer completely redo/undo things anyway.
I listen to realtors and respect their professional experience .
Read you post again . You are doing a hard sell for us to say leave it .
Shes right . Just like acoustical ceilings are no longer desired .
Tim
Leave it unpainted, if it's in good shape. I think interest in ranch houses of that era is picking up, and some people are going to great lengths to restore them to original condition. Pick up a copy of Atomic Ranch magazine and you'll see what I mean. http://www.atomic-ranch.com/
I recently finished a small 3 b/r cottage for some folks. It had been damaged in a tornado last fall. The interior was 75% gutted, so they really had their pick of what the new finish could be. They had me install luan wood grain paneling that they then painted white!!!!!! The stuff is really not all that cheap either.
I didn't take many pictures of that job.
H
Casey -
Like you, I prefer wood, but what you prefer isn't the issue. You need to be thinking about appealing to as many buyers as possible and your agent knows the local market much better than you do.
Bay area real estate isn't as hot as it was last year and buyers are more in control. I'm in San Jose and SWMBO is in the real estate business. Her business is off by ~20% - ~30% and a For Sale sign in the yard isn't an invitation to an auction anymore - lol.
I helped my buddy paint his luan panelling a few years back. We put on at least 4 coats of paint. Then we tore it down and put up drywall!
Have a good day
Cliffy
At risk of being labeled a fence straddler, how about a notice that you will remove panelling if an acceptable offer is made. Time it to do the work after their loan approval, but before closing. A previous comment was right on, the general buying public is who you are striving to please, and there is no explaining some fashions. No matter how you guess, you will be wrong.
Dan
RE agents can sometimes have a good feel for what meets the generic market and demands of buyers.
Other times, they suddenly think they are interior designers when given the opportunity.
get a second opinion locally
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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Excellence is its own reward!
It isn't luann....
It's MAHAGONY!!!
It's all in the MARKETING!!!
I have no comment...
Listen to the realtors. IMO, luan paneling is a very dated look. I'd guess that there will be better than a 50% chance that any prospective buyer will look at the house as "immediate remodeling will be necessary".
I went through this when selling my parents house after they passed away. House was in good shape, just very dated - including luan paneling on one wall in the LR and in the rec room. Pink tile bathrooms, all hardwoods, dated cheap looking kitchen cabinets. Sat on the market for a year+ but because of estate stuff I couldn't just dump it quickly for whatever offer came along - and there were a few low ones... The market was fairly good at the time.
Ended up painting the paneling in the LR, painting the kitchen cabinets white, new sheet vinyl floor in kitchen and made a few other superfluous improvements, and sold it for maybe 5% less than what was the going rate for that same model that had been updated in that same (rather large) subdivision. I ended up doing a sale by owner meaning that there was seller's no real estate commission which helped. It was a deal where I paid like maybe $500 to get it in the MLS.
Personally though, I think I'd look into applying S/R right over the luan... You would install fire rings on the electrical boxes and have to retrim windows and doors.
Don't get caught up in feeling you have to DIY this stuff - especially considering that you don't live in that city. Having that kind of investment tied up for several months while you save a few thousand would not be a wise business decision. As far as not updating it I'm gonna make a wild guess that taking a 10% hit on a house like that in that area could be $65k. Just half of that - 30k would buy a fair amount of remodeling even in a high priced labor market. Get a home equity loan if you have to.
I'd have to agree that painting luan is a futile exercise. However, the whole retro, vintage thing is big - if you tap into the right market.
For example, within "10 miles north of Berkeley" are a bunch of Eichler homes of that vintage. If you paint over or sheetrock the luan in an Eichler someone is very likely to be cursing you as they strip the paint or pay big $$ to put up new luan. Ya just never can tell. There's a nice little cottage industry renovating and maintaining those homes:
http://www.eichlernetwork.com/
beadboard and waitcoat are an outdated product but people are going crazy over it now.By the way, where does somebody buy beadboard.
Styles in home decorating are cyclic just like clothing. For example I believe that bell bottom pants were in fashion in the 60s and then again in the 90s.
IMO though, don't confuse classic architectural details with outdated building building materials.
BTW - beadboard is available here (both the fake 4x8 sheets and the real 1x4 or 1x6 boards) in just about any lumber yard or big box.
OTOH - It always amazes me to see that these home centers sell paneling... Who uses this stuff? Home owners I guess... I know it's all the fad for mobile homes... :-)
A coat of white pigmented shellac plus a coat of primer would probably seal the luan enough to paint it. And the shellac dries fast enough to be able to keep working.
CaseyR
No matter what you do somebody won't like something.. it's both a technique for buying and a matter of personal preferance.. If it's in good shape I'd just clean it with murphys soap and then give it a a wipe down with murphy's oil..
A coupleof hours work at most..
Expect to be hit with it from every buyer that realitor brings in though.. Consider a differant realitor..
Some people might actually like the look and the rest would know that a coat or two of paint will cover a lot of sins..
On the other hand, the market for existing houses is pretty well soft right now, so I'd be pretty flexible with regard the price.. if they want a $500.00 allowance to replace the wall with sheetrock I'd accept it.
On the other hand, the market for existing houses is pretty well soft right now, so I'd be pretty flexible with regard the price.. if they want a $500.00 allowance to replace the wall with sheetrock I'd accept it.
That is exactly what I would...... Keep the luan, who know's, someone just might like it. If a prospective buyer doesn't like the material in the house offer them an allowance to have it replaced. Saves you the time and aggrevation of getting it done yourself and they get the product they desire.
Semper Fi
The problem with giving an allowance versus just fixing it (although $500 isn't near what it would cost, which you and I both know, but the buyer may not) is that 95% or more of buyers can't imagine it how it would look with drywall. The result is that they have a negative, dated impression of that room, and the whole house. They may not know what it is exactly that they don't like, but their negative impression will carry through to the whole house.I'd listen to Mooney, who makes money rehabbing and reselling houses. Replace it with drywall. Replace any other finishes in the house that are dated with inexpensive but modern loooking replacements as well if you want to maximize price, especially in kitchen and bath(s). Don't spend money to upgrade mechanicals unless absolutely necessary. Looks sell, not bones.Ken
I have a friend that is a RE agent.That is what she says. Most buyers don't see the options and want something ready to moving into.
Every RE agent I know says that the HO's ego can be a big detriment to selling their house. HO's "stage" the place to show off their furnishings and tastes and many of them are pretty hurt when prospective buyers don't ohh and ahh and whip out their checkbook.
I've talked to professional "stagers" who tell me that they prefer just enough of the HO's stuff so the place doesn't look vacant but empty enough so prospective buyers can visualize their own stuff in the house. One even told me that a new kitchen featuring the cheapest Home Depot cabinets is easier to sell than a vintage '70's kitchen with dark oak cabinets in mint condition.
The majority of buyers want to move in, arrange their stuff, and say "We're home" - not start planning the remodel project - lol.
The majority of buyers want to move in, arrange their stuff, and say "We're home" - not start planning the remodel project - lol.
Thats correct . You have seconds to make an impression to sell a house . With out that , the realator has 10 more houses for them to look at and it gets passed . If you cant cause them to stop and say you know I think this may be it , it doesnt have a chance . There will be 10 more to look at the next day and 10 more the next day. Pretty soon all the information gets jumbled and memory loss sets in on which house had the oval sink?
What they teach is wow factor or shock factor. Curb appeal is first and that gets them out of the car . The buyer can simply order the agent to move on while in an air conditioned car . We dont want to see that one and its done for that one .
The entry is next with the kitchen getting two visits . The living room is normally part of the entry in some way so it has to hold up to standards as well . As a group its second . Master bed room /baths is next . Then storage closets starting with the Mbedroom.
If you can hold intereest and have some wow going on during those seconds of viewing you stand a chance of holding them. They are free to leave anytime the whim hits them. Lets look at somthing else .
Theres a lot of people every year that dont understand why their house is still on the market . If it was easy everyone would be able to sell their house with out any help.
Tim
Ken37
He has many other problems that need to be addressed before he gets the maximum price for the home.. He hasn't said anything about the location so he could be trying to maximise his return in a down market where according to his statement if he did everything the realitor asked for he'd just about break even.
Here is time for a differant stratagy. People always look for a bargin.. Put it on the market right now, warts and all sell it below the market and he might wind up with more net than if he fixed it up. Plus a faster sale..
People want bargins.
Give them one and they overlook warts..
OK, folks, I was kidding about "almost get enough to pay off the remodeling loan". The market has appreciated considerably and I hope to get enough out of the place to build up here on the Columbia River. However, I have some significant questions about the cost benefit of doing some of the remodeling suggested by the realtor and the lauan paneling is but one. I realize that I have to fix the dry rot in the bathroom floor and replace the 1950's vintage cheap knotty pine veneered kitchen cabinets that look like they have been through the rental wars. Probably replace the front door and refinish the hardwood floors. However things like replacing the toilet that look perfectly good to me as well as the tile tub surround that also looks fine are things I question. Repainting inside and out goes without question.According to the remodeling magazines I have read, very few actual remodeling jobs pay for themselves. Major kitchen remodels and minor bathroom remodels are the exception that may actually bring a tiny bit more than they cost. For a lot of other remodeling, 75% seems to be about as much as you can hope to recover.There is actually somewhat of a conflict of interest between that of the realtor and that of the home owner. The realtor gets his percentage from the selling price, so if it raises the selling price by $10,000, the realtor gets his/her six percent or whatever on that even if that $10,000 increase in selling price cost the homeowner twice that. As the homeowner, however, I am trying to do a cost benefit analysis on the various items suggested by the realtor and only do those that will get it sold sooner without my having to spend large amounts of unrecoverable cash.
CaseyR
You make a good point. cost benefit.. Time is a factor of that cost benefit calculation..
If a project will take three weeks to bid and perform and you have several such projects needing completion. you could delay things long enough to be past the critical market time.. Most homes not sold in time to move into the new school have a hard time selling.
Figure a few weeks to get it on the market, and a month selling time that leaves very little time to close and move before school starts..
Sure some buyers might not have children but do you really want to eliminate all those who do?
Price buyers wait untill after halloween before they start to shop. They know few buyers are out and the owners who haven't sold by then are pretty desperate.. Don't make the mistake of waiting too long.
Your point of market timing is certainly a good one. And OP makes a arguable point of the realtor's interests in commission as well. As well, the OP knows the market alot better than any of us due to lack of details and personal experience.However, saying that, I know a lot of realtors, and 99% of them would rather have a bird in the hand than 2 in the bush. I don't believe that a realtor would want to put off a listing for commission (probably 3%) on ten thousand bucks, which is probably about $300, and risk losing a sale, or even putting it off. Most realtors like to list properties too low to sell quickly, rather than risk more time and the possibility of losing the listing altogether if the property doesn't sell if it is listed too high. An EXPERIENCED realtor would only suggest reairs that are necessary for a quick sale and a good return, trying to maximize the value to the client and get referrals and future business, which is their bread and butter.Ken
I think you have the right idea - minimalistic. The house next door (SF Bay Area also) was severely neglected. They had to redo both bathrooms, replaced the single pane aluminum sliding windows and the gold flocked wallpaper. New furnace (old one hadn't been turned on in 20+ years) and they just painted the mid-60's ugly knotty pine cabinets. Sold for $730K+.
New owner has already replaced the kitchen cabinets, put in some hardwood flooring, new deck, etc. Similar houses in the area now selling in the mid-800's (taking a bit longer, still getting the price).
So, make it look good at first glance and leave it at that (of course, as long as it's structurally sound!).
Try a month or so on the market with the luan. If it tanks, pull the listing and slap up drywall.
-- J.S.
"Try a month or so on the market with the luan. If it tanks, pull the listing and slap up drywall."
Not picking you John just adding to it .
Lets put the place up really high and let it sit a few months and start comming down.
Both will work but also have the same kiss of death.
There are buyers out there in limbo.
I want a 3b 3 b with a thriple garage , a pool , yada yada.
When the house comes up , the morning it comes up , there is a maze of agents on speed dial calling their customers. The house will end up getting most of the showings the first month. Its a hard decision to miss the grand showing of the first month although I usually wait for the 6 and the 12 th month to view those properties. They are wanna be sellers at that point with their dobber down. Thats when they will "take " offers.
Tim
(It would appear that after doing all the remodeling he suggested, that I would probably make almost enough from the sale of the house to pay off the remodeling loan...).
Why remodel if you won’t make a good profit from your work and materials invested?
If fixing some thing will raise the price of the home by twice the cost of time and labor go for it.
Unless you like to work for nothing Why do it? you may have a reason. If you don't just sell it as is and do something that will either give you some pleasure or at least some money.
Ill tell you why I would .
He doesnt live there and there is a hint he wants rid of it .
Right now he wants the renters out and from his writing he has one of those high flutin property management companies posed as a real estate company to handle it for him at a cost . Now that cost is also figgurring the company could give a rats butt about anything unless the income stops . That means they dont police it .
A feller would have to be nuts to want rental property in another town or state. It wont sell rented but it will empty so his progress. He wants shed of it but is close to even up. Its going to cost him every month the house is on the market empty , so here comes the river cards.
Tim
Personally, as a buyer, I'd much rather look at an as-is lived in house than one that's had a quick and dirty drywall job. I'd rather not negotiate with a seller who's looking to recoup the three grand he paid a decorator to throw rose petals in the bathtub, let alone one who's trying to recoup on remodeling that I might well want to demo immediately.
But then again, I'm not the target market. The target is the ignorant buyer who doesn't know any better than to be influenced by the seller's furniture.
-- J.S.
"Personally, as a buyer, I'd much rather look at an as-is lived in house than one that's had a quick and dirty drywall job. I'd rather not negotiate with a seller who's looking to recoup the three grand he paid a decorator to throw rose petals in the bathtub, let alone one who's trying to recoup on remodeling that I might well want to demo immediately.
But then again, I'm not the target market. The target is the ignorant buyer who doesn't know any better than to be influenced by the seller's furniture. "
I'm with you on this one. When I bought my house, the first thing I did was tear out all the 'improvements' the previous owner did to try to sell the place. I know the majority of buyers need to see a fresh coat of white paint on everything, but I've never really understood why.
am doing the paneling to drywall update in a duplex right now. In most places the paneling was so thrashed from years of tenants there was no way to keep it or paint it so the decision to do the work was easy. . .
What a difference. When we bought the place all our friends and family said we were nuts because it was “so outdated” now with just a few of the walls done it has become “a really cool space” most folks just can't look past things like walls. Even paint color can be tough for some people to overcome, my wife is like that, totally unable to see how things could be instead of how they are.
The place was built in ’73 and many of our tasks are similar to yours:
Repair rotted subfloor in bathroom
Replace rusting steel tub
New tub surround
Replace cracked toilet stool (thus the water/rot)
We are still in debate on the kitchen cabs, the need a repaint at least but with some of the prices from places like IKEA for very modern cabinets it makes a tough choice.
We are keeping the T&G ceiling and the stained trim as it is a nice contrast to the Off-whiteness of everything else.
We have some floor plan issues to take care of as well but I need to address those in another post.