Should sewage grinder pump tanks (for a single family) have the top above ground level to keep water out,
or should the tank top be slightly below ground?
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Well the city wanted to put an extender on my so that it 4" above ground. But I said no. And they said that they could put a gasket on it.
But in my case there is not much water going by so it is not a problem.
But you don't want it below the surface. For no other reason it will get covered by dirt and grass.
Some of them around here they are 6-8" or move above ground. But that is because of the $#^[email protected] contractor that the city hired. They got tired of jackhammering and set let them set high. That was just one of the more minor problems. They did not seal alot of the sewer connections and the system was getting flooded with ground water. And many of the electrical lines are 0-6" under ground.
any idea who sells extender rings or flanges for the top of the in ground tank?/ I did several web searches and get only closet flangesand what type vent is usually used?
I did a google on - sewer grinder pump holding tanks - and most of the hits where on government organzations explaining the system to their residences.But I hit one manufactures rep that had pump and tanks and found the manufacture of the tanks.http://www.akindustries.com/Now there fiberglass tanks like look what we have and they have extension rings, lids and vents.So I did a search on - sewer grinder pumps basins - and that gives lots of hits on hardware (pumps, tanks, controls).
Bill Hartmann is correct about not having a sump below grade, a small amount above grade is fine, This only applies in dirt; if you are in concrete, it should be flush. All sewage sumps should be sealed. If there is any chance of getting water into it, there's something wrong with the installation. LOL
Are you talking about the tank, or the riser (the access extension over the tank lid)? I have never seen a tank with its top above ground anywhere, but I haven't been everywhere<G> Are you on a sewer (more than just your own), or your own sewage system?
I would think above ground would smell bit!
The are closed tanks with a lid. But they do need venting.
my son in laws is below ground level a few inches. no vent- maybe it vents back thru supply pipe???????? and the tank top if flat- no access panelWhere would you get an extender?????
Edited 6/4/2005 8:25 am ET by wain
I am guessing that in most cases they can use the drain line as a went vent it was "within reason".I have to explain the why we have such a system and why it is vented.I live on a small residential lake that was developed in 1928 for summer fishing cabins. They laid a "sewer system" (I suspect just a collect that at that time emptied out below the dam) that was used 6" clay and 6" concrete tiles.Of course this was before automatic washers (and clothes washing was probably done in the city house), dishwasher, and disposlas.Over the years the concrete tiles deteriated, ground water got into the system, full time house where built, modern appliacnes where added. This all added to the load on the system. Many repairs and "fixes" (such as bypass lines and pump stations) where added, but still the system overflowed on heavy rain and was always clogging.Adding to the problem many houses had been built over the old sewer line. So the solution was to build a completely new type of system. A plastic "force main" (2" I think) was installed in the street and at each house a grinder pump was installed. In many cases they connect to the existing sewer line where it exited the house and the blocked off the old line on the other side of th ehouse.But they where working with upto 60 year old plumbing systems and electrical system. And since a lot of these started as cabins and then added on the qualify of much was suspect.For electrical power they tapped on right at the meter and installed a control panel with breakers so that they would not have to interact with the house panel.IIRC the tanks and grinders where installed without vents and they added vents later. I am guessing because of problem venting in the houss. The vents are just a mushroom cap about 4" round and 2" high.Now for the extender ring. I realy don't know the source. But plumbing supply houses should have them or be able to get them. Who handles the tanks and pumps should be able to get the extenders.
Bill, I've installed quite a few of these pumping stations, and only the ones installed inside basements (flush with the floor) are vented, as they, obviously, are sealed to keep odors out of the interior house environment. The exterior pumping stations are concrete tanks about half the size of a 1500 Imp.Gal. septic tank, and we bury them with the top of the cover flush to grade so it can be found easily. There is no problem with venting--obviously a concrete cap sitting on a concrete chimney isn't sealed gas tight--nor with ground water getting in; if it does, it's simply pumped uphill to the weeping field and helps 'rinse' the system a bit.
All electrics to the pump and the high-level alarms are run buried in W/T PVC conduit and I snake NMWU in that 'just in case'. I use oversized conduit to accomodate it. I generally bring the conduit in parallel to the waste line coming from the septic tank, and seal it there with copious amounts of bituminous compound.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Ours are long round fiberglass tanks set vertically about 36-42" like those made by the company that I linked to.But real strange that this thread and the other one wanting to know if there was such a thing. This subject does not come up that often.Last week the alarm on my and my neighbors went off. There is right next to mine on the otherside of the property line and they share a common discharge line with a shutoff by the street. The idiots that did the orginal system did not install shutoffs at each location, but fortunately mine did.Tried open and closing the shutoff a couple of times and they started pumping. Must have had some build up in it.The thursday evening just my alarm when off. Check it and it was still pumping, but barely. And my was one of the orginal ones. So they pulled it and replaced it friday moring.This morning I get up and respond to Wain and some other people before I go down to fix breakfast.Go to let the dog out and there is a small gusher in the yard and the bolted down lid has been blown off the tank. And sewage is running into the lake.We had a ton of rain last night, some place reporting 5" and my phone is out, but the DSL is still up.So I am knockin gon the neighbors at 8 am to use their phone. No response on the city's pager. Try to contact a councilman that also did temp work for the sewer/water. His phone was also out. Drove over to his house, but he was out of town. Drove to the maintance shed where I ran into the maintace guy and he was above to shutt it off at the street.Truns out that the hose fitting on the new pump blew.And I was having problems catching the maintace man because I was not the only one having problems. Among other water washed out a section of the mainline on the otherside of the lake.
That force system of yours is something I've never seen or ever even heard of. I can't even imagine the head it must hold back.
The most common maintenance problems with standard pumping stations, whether interior or exterior are (a) a burnt out pump motor, natch; and (b) a stuck switch float--either it gets hung up on something (very unusual) and won't shut off, or it gets stuck under something and won't turn on (more likely). When (b) happens on an interior system, we usually remedy things by just unplugging the pump from the piggy-back and turning it on manually and pumping the tank all the way down. This lets the float fall out from whatever it's stuck under, and we walk away without ever having to open the tank. In an exterior tank, we've gotta lift the cover and poke a stick in to free up the float.
The good grinder pumps like Myers and Grundfos very rarely jam. About the only things they really don't like are washing-machine lint and tampons--both pack real solid and stick to the vanes....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
With the force main the each pump, when they run, pushes a slug of sh*t into the line and that force everything in the line down.Doing it this way the line does not have to have gravity to flow. I doubt that there is more than 100 ft from the highest to the low place in the system, but there is lots of ups and downs. So the static head is not that high, but I have no idea what the dynamic head is.The maintance guy said that the pumps where speced at 40 psi, though.My next door neighbors where not going to be home and lend me their cordless phone (and I alread had a key).So that aftenoon the sewer had been fixed and so I take it back and leave a note and then leave to go to the grecory. Get back and they hve returned and told me that just as they got back and saw my note they looked out and the same thing happened again. The replacement hose had blown off the fitting.They use a crimp band on barbed fitting. I think that they need to replace there crimping tool or get it adjusted.
Double-band it, maybe? I always use two bands when clamping down pressurized lines. Dunno if that'd help with your set up....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Probably need to do that.It is a hose material, tried not to get too close if you know what i mean, with plastic barb to thread fittings. I use the same fitting on PE pipe that I used with my irragation water pump. And I learned to use 2 worm clamps on them.
Standard for all tubing to barbed push-in connections here is to use stainless worm-screw bands, a double set on each side of the fitting, with the worm drives OPPOSED to each other in each double set. In other words, PITA though it is, the screws have to face opposite each other. This would be for anything 1¾" and smaller, mostly water suction lines and so forth.
On bigger stuff, like the 2½" semi-rigid that we use to feed uphill to the weeping field, I use three bands and crank 'em down with a ratchet wrench until the worm screw is almost ready to slip...then I stop and fold the tail of the band back on itself at 90-degrees so it can't slip back at all. It helps get a real tight seal on the barbed insert fitting if the tubing is heated with a torch to soften the plastic some first. Heck, most times, unless we heat the tubing up, we cannot physically push the fitting into it. Especially in cooler weather.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
seems like the screw fittings used on boat's thru hull fittings would be good
I'm not sure I quite follow you on that one, Wain. Most thru-hull fittings I'm familiar with are either flared and compressed against the hull between the male and female halves of the fitting (such as a bilge pump discharge line or a fire-pump intake), or are sent through a stuffing box, like the propeller shaft.
The PE pipe we use as the discharge line for exterior pumping stations is semi-flexible and cannot be flared. As it also is not particularly round, LOL, I really don't know if a compression fitting could conceivably work, but I've never seen one meant for that material. Where we attach the foot valve to the discharge line coming off the pump, we are still running rigid ABS. Those valves have compression fittings (or solvent-welded fittings on the cheap ones) on each side. From the uphill side of the valve, we run a short piece of ABS, then weld on a F x F threaded adapter coupling so we can thread in the barbed nipple that will take the semi-rigid PE tube that goes up to the weeping field. That's where the worm-drive bands come in.
(Obviously, for interior pumping stations, the discharge is rigid ABS all the way as it ties directly into the house's main waste line once it gets high enough to do so. So no bands on those systems.)
This PE pipe is the same type of pipe we use for water pump suction lines from a well or lake. It's pretty tough stuff, and if the bands are applied well and the pipe is heated first, it rarely presents any problems.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Thanks
I understand
sounds good
On our systems there is a quick disconnect between the pumps and the tanks. I did not inspect it closely, but the discharge fitting has a shutoff valve and "slide gate" type of fitting. The mating part of the slide fitting has FIPS connection, which in turn has the adapter to the hose and the other end of the hose is connects to the pump. The pumps is just free standing in the bottom of the tank.So when they need to do a change out they use a tool to close the valve and pull off the pumps side of the slide gate.Then they grab the rope on the pump and lift it out. Disconnect the electrical side and reverse to put in the new one.