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I’m tired of one individual thinking anyone who posts opinions that are foreign to him must be in some kind of conspiracy to mislead DIYers or sell their business or whatever next label there is to come in the future…
Can’t we all post are ideas and chat about them without acting like members of the Breaktime “trenchcoat mafia?”
I vote for more reasonable discussion and less personal attacks
Near the stream, and enjoying American diversity except hate.
J
Replies
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Gene,
I never saw you attacked so much as of late...I like your posts here especially your ability not to lower yourself to attacking back...No instead you take the admirable road and stick with your facts and opinions reexplaining them, etc...Thanks
When Fred gets back, the pressure will be back on him and may let up on you so hang in there.
I thought by now the one person who continues the personal hate and control around here (the energy sandbox bully) would finally chill out but he likes the challenge and will stick to the hate to the grave and he's probably healthy, oh well!
Hoping he learns to be courteous and respectful of others rights to opinions and discourse whether he disagrees or not...I really don't think anyone will check in here and then go sue him because he allowed an incorrect idea to exist on this board.
Peace, love, and groovieness, near the stream,
J
*Dear Jack,Your all wet on this one. It's not a matter of one person trying to control. Its a matter of a small group or clique that has controlled the postings in the past and as a direct result have infuenced or misinformed DYI's with claims of $30.00 a year heating bills.Now a group of professionals have entered the picture to challenge this establishment and members of this little clique are having to prove their ridiculous statements and they don't like it.Tough.While you're at it, checkout the number of postings you have made to try and influence the outcome of this board.Count the number that I have done. "0" I confined myself to answering questions, making comments to the subject and challenging any idiotic claims.
*This type of posting doesn't seem very constructive or necessary.There is always some useful information given, even though flaming, under the posting of a "real" topic. Just ignore these types of postings.I usually do.
*Jack,With all due respect. I feel you should re-examine your motive for bringing the "trenchcoat mafia" parallel into this post. IMO this was irresponsible, way off base and doesn't say much for your thought, reasoning and conversational skills. I am also pretty sure you wish you could take it back.Steve Zerby posted a link in another thread that would be of interest to anyone involved in any type of heated discussion or flame war. I know the subject content is different but the message and mechanics are very interesting indeed.Link-----http://www.MacKiDo.com/Web/Thread.html
*JJ,No I don't want to take back my post...The school hate crimes are real and the venum on this and other boards are real....I don't mind strange sounding advice nearly as much as I tire of 7/24 one individual trying to drive those he disagrees with out of a public forum...I'm for all having there say, and less trying to directly control and bully...I know this thread is just fun for the bully types to challenge and that's why I should just ignore all the bullying, but as been shown, ignore a bad situation and it may not get better....I want a solution that will work for all....I will check the above site to see if it offers one...thanksNear the stream, praying for less attacks,Peace, love, and groovieness,J
*JJ,Just visited the site you mentioned....blah blah about something I have no interest in and whining about flaming....I am not flamed often and my purpose here is for a solution to arise...Silence and private emailing and leaving for a few weeks did nothing...I am young, there's hope I will out live a particular flamer or two...Just for fun, I would like to see non-flame weatherization postings for the month of say May...Possible everyone?Near the stream, and done whining almost,J
*I suggest you read more than the front of the Wheaties Box. It may help if you substitute Mac and the Microsoft moniker for the subjects relating to this discussion board. The real meat of the link(I know it is LOOOoong) is towards the end. Of course if you have any type of attention deficit disorder, you may have to struggle to get through the whole thing. That is OK, no one is in a big hurry on this one Jack.Sociologically speaking,This says a lot about all of us here as well as any conglomeration of passionate, intelligent group on the internet. Perhaps even....in the Real World.Jeff--Been there done that...both sides unfortunately.
*JJ,Sorry but that Wheaties box is huge and yes I don't want all the computer dope in my head, so just kindly spill the beans on how this scenario can play out so all live in semi peace and only flame in fun ways sorta like how blue and I and fiyo and many others are able to share and not ever have it sound like it has in this energy area for weeks and months...I did just observe a nice exchange though tonight! Maybe things are getting better!!!Near the stream,J
*Maybe a good dose of Saturday Nite Live??Life imitates art as they say. Right Jack?Things will get better.
*Great idea...on with the tube and off with the boob.Thanks jj.Near the stream, live,J
*Jack,By comparing a few people here that like to argue with those murderous bastards, you trivialize the deaths of 25 innocent people. Besides, why even honor them by calling them by their stupid little name? Hate is real, but you won't find it here. Let's have a little respect for those poor folks in Colorado. Man wouldn't I love to rip those little peckers to shreds. Respectfuly,Dan
*Dan,I disagree...When the flames are high here it is all about hate and egos.Near the stream,J
*Not Murderous hatred Jack.I'm sure that when I was giving Joe Fusco a hard time about spelling, he didn't want to kill me. (Maybe whap me on the back as I tried to swig my frosty cold one, but not mow me down with a sawed-off shotgun). I don't even think that Gabe, Fred L, or anyone else that might be on your top five list would walk into a room and Murder another flame participant.Those two (probably more) little ***** TOOK THE LIVES AWAY FROM 13 PEOPLE.(I can't stress that enough)Not to mention the life they're stealing from the families and friends of those INNOCENT people. Then they didn't even have the guts to own up to it. They killed themselves. The pussies.When comparisons between two very unequal quantities are made they tend to soften the evil quantity rather than harshen the not-so-bad quantity. For example: Tom Lykas calls Rush Limbaugh a Nazi.The Nazis slaughtered 6,000,000 people. Rush Limbaugh hasn't killed anyone. He probably hasn't even maimed anyone. Heck, I bet his biggest crime is that he's rude,(which incidently is the biggest crime I've witnessed here...) and that's not even a crime. Maybe he cheats on his taxes too. All of a sudden, we forget what the Nazis did because we're thinking about Rush. I know people in Littleton, Colorado Jack. I don't think anyone I know is dead, but I bet my friends there know some. I also know a lady with a tattoo from a Nazi concentration camp. She is one of the "lucky" ones. Please do the me, yourself and the rest of the world a favor, don't trivialize this senseless theft of life. I mean absolutely no disrespect here. I'm just asking for a favor.(Sean: sorry about the language, but it's necessary in this instance to drive the point home. Feel free to delete this)Dan
*Dan, I don't disagree with many of your points but tolerating the antiscocial behaviour that is often demonstrated here is only different from the anti-social behaviour of those kids in Colorado or some of the Serbs in Yugoslavia, etc., in degree. I believe trivializing the sociopathic attitudes displayed by the flaming here is a beginning to being less sensitive to even worse behaviour.
*Bill,I didn't know that you were a DIY student of psychology. To equate this these recent tragic events with the dialogue contained in these posts is very sick indeed.Heal thyself physician.You, Jack and FredL have all been guilty of spreading hate by singling out one individual (who will remain nameless) by posting thread after thread of hateful remarks and comments. You should step back and look into a mirror when you let your ego fool you into thinking that you are God standing in judgement of others. What gives you the right to decide what is best for anyone?And you Jack, in particular. Where was your loving mind when you posted that link to that white supremist who wants to protect the rights of whites only.How dare any of you stand to judge.A jewish mentor of mine, used to tell me that it was all right to muddy the water as long as your hands were clean.I see a lot of dirty hands out there.I do not want to imagine what it would be like to have my grand daughter amongst the victims in Colorado, but my prayers go to them that continue to suffer.Gabe
*A little illustration of the pot calling the kettle black:>>What gives you the right to decide what is best for anyone?<<-Gabe Martel>>You don't suppose that You and Gene could simply E-mail your mutual admiration club letters so that I'm not subjected to the BS contained in Guru Gene's claims about the world famous Leger houses.<<-Gabe Martel>>Like I said Gene, why don't the two of you show a little class and Email your made up question and answer letters.<<-Gabe Martel>>Gene and Steve - Please E-mail me with your Q&A if you do go that route. I am happy to keep reading here though.<<-Rob Susz
*Hi Rob,I was wondering when you were going to poke your head up to add you two cents worth. Notice what's missing in my treads. The word "WE".I speak for myself, I say what I mean and I mean what I say.Now genius, Show me the post were I try to organize others against you or anyone else.Gabe
*Bill,My problem is with gross comparisons.I didn't mean to imply that we should tolerate idiotic arguments here. In fact, I think exactly the opposite. My feeling is that there are enough intelligent people here scrutinizing the information that the absurd or unfriendly will be confronted. By confronting it, we're dealing with it. Communication is good. I'm pretty sure miscommunication is to blame in the Littleton tragedy.When we're confronted (or we see someone else confronted), then we all think twice about what we say. Or at least maybe we try to be more articulate.You say:"I believe trivializing the sociopathic attitudes displayed by the flaming here is a beginning to beingless sensitive to even worse behaviour. " I think substituting "Tolerating" for "Trivializing" would make this statement entirely accurate. And I would agree.Thanks for your input,Dan
*Dan,My sister in law who I just got back from visiting with lived in Littleton for twelve years for whatever that is worth. As you have just said in your post as well as Bill, hate and or disrespect in the way one responds to another are less than enjoyable to all, are not admired by many and just slow the exchange of fun and useful chatter...As you can see above, Gabe is feeling very defensive and thinks others may have organised against him. I haven't organised with anybody. I don't think Steve Zurby has either though I see him accused of it repeatedly of late since their has been no Fred l To attack.Attacking verbally is the first step the trench coat boys were in before they took the big leap.Not to(o) thrilled with little leapers or big ones, near the stream,J
*Dan, couldn't agree more... yet I do have reservations on the statement of "no one here..."Your friends in Littleton, may voice a similar statement sometime in the near future. "Who'd imagine anyone here..." and they are 100% correct.This kind of appalling behavior is unimaginable. Just as many other psychotic events in history."The Final Solution," Jonestown, The "Killing Fields", The Branch Davideons, the Morrow Building, all these School Shootings and bombing, just to name a few.A fundamental lack of respect for the lives, ideals, and rights of one another is the over simplified cause of much of this suffering. When we divide into "Us" and "Them" the dirty work has begun, and woe is to follow.My regards to your friends in Littleton, GWC
*George,No inner innate (redundant) drive to respect...So true George and to add what is happening is actually an ego driven need to be noticed by pissing off others who somehow have seemingly smugly been a part of making them feel on the outside and lonely, unloved unconditionally.Near the stream and truely believe all people need to be needed by all in their life,J
*And where does that put you Jack?
*Gabe,You're style is just to(O) aggresive for me big guy...Yes you like to hang here and answer all the posts, great...but if others respond to(o) try to be courteous that's all...No one is out to get you, just sicjk of anyone who flames day in and day out.That's it in a nut shell...Lets talk about flying instead of poly and maybe we can be civil...By the way I have been to Sun N Fun and worked it selling ultralights for the entire 80's...I don't go every year now but like to make it to The Wallaby Hang Gliding Ranch near Disney World to do some winter thermal soaring every year.Near the stream and rather fly than watch people fly,J
*George,I suppose I might have been a bit naive by assuming none of these posters would commit murder. But I can hope.Everyone else,As long as we're here talking about conflict, let's consider these statements and figure out the best way to deal with conflicting views:"A fundamental lack of respect for the lives, ideals, and rights of one another is the over simplified cause of much of this suffering. When we divide into "Us" and "Them" the dirty work has begun, and woe is to follow." -- George Carpenter"...an ego driven need to be noticed by pissing off others who somehow have seemingly smugly been a part of making them feel on the outside and lonely, unloved unconditionally." --Jack By-the-lakeDo you all (er, excuse me, I meant "all-uh-y'all") agree with the above?It seems to me that the second is the logical extension of the first. After we separate, then we start calling names, then retaliation occurs and the end result is (at best) less than productive. We know what the worst case scenarios can be...I'm not opposed to more than one "school of thought" because that promotes an open exchange of ideas. In fact I've learned a ton here in the past year or so and it's directly related to the fact that there were two (or more) compelling views of different problems and their solutions. The danger lies in unqualified attacks on personal character with no bearing on the subject matter at hand. As I attempted to say below (to Bill Conner), when you confront a bully with factual arguments you trivialize his (or her) actions. When you ignore a bully, you're tolerating them. I'm thinking that tolerating their actions leads to more outrageous actions. In order to get a response. In order to get recognition. When you aknowledge them, point out the errors in their logic and trivialize their outrageous statements, they've gotten their response and perhaps will think twice next time. Or articulate more carefully their position for the next round.This is all making me re-think my position on dealing with conflict. For instance: If my new puppy is in the back yard barking I used to think that I should just ignore her, she'll shut up in a little while (but what is she doing now that she's shut up? Chewing up my inflatable Dolly Parton doll? --Bad Dog!). Don't go tell her to be quiet because as soon as I leave, she'll have made the connection between barking and getting attention. And she'll never shut up. But realisticly, I suppose I should walk over and sternly say "Shut Up Wiggles". Then perhaps after a half hour of her shutting up, let her in and play with her. Now she makes the connection between shutting up (or more broadly, doing what I tell her to) and happy play time.-or-When someone's kid is acting like an absolute brat and everyone ignores him (her) the kid will probably take the next step into brat-dom and start tipping over the sacred beer bottles. I suppose that's where the spanking comes in, but if the parents were to deal effectively prior to the beer spill everyone would be happier.I was just going to ignore this post when I first saw it because it seemed like it wouldn't lead anywhere but I really felt the need to plead for an end to gross comparisons. It's disgusting how many things I've heard compared to Hitler and the Nazis. I really wonder if kids these days have any idea how evil that whole episode was (due to poor comparisons).Now I guess I'm glad I jumped in. It seems to be fairly productive.By the way, I have noticed that it's been a boatload more civil around here in the past month or so...I'm Glad, what do all-uh-y'all think?Dan
*What did your Dolly Parton blowup doll do to get exiled to the back yard with the dog?Rich Beckman :=}
*Rich,That was my question!Near the stream, thinking once a toddler gets attention the wrong way it's down hill from then on unless he sees his own behavior as bad and learns to fight his natural instincts or retrain himself for life.J
*Joe,I knew you couldn't watch from the sidelines letting a chance go by to pull out your Barby act and try to burn someone that you feel alianated by (I do respect you when you're not flaming me or others.) The famous five should stick together, we all need freinds and recognition (ego feeding.)...just kidding really!!!Seriously...you are missing the point of my thread as I am not ussually being flamed, I am just tired of the less than respectful way the "famous five" act at others. (I mostly get flamed for asking the flamers to turn off their torches)...And just like when I was a kid and would tell the "bully of the block" that he wasn't welcome because of his poor behavior, he wouldn't ever leave when asked even though his was then ignored. No, to feel like a winner while he was a loser, he would leave a few minutes later so he thought he left on "his own terms."So you think Gabe should attack Steve and Bill and Gene and all people who post opinions? Reread the posts here and tell me who pulls out the flame throwers the most and give me examples...If you don't want to, don't, no biggy. so Joe the trim work you posted looked like a good job to sink your teeth into. What you working on these days? I'm doing tennis courts day and night as it's a short season to get all courts opened at once...Take care, and hope you don't go after my tennis racket again, near the stream,J
*JackIt's not so much the toddlers, it's the teens and adults who are convinced that they need some serious i attentionto validate their existence.b You're not real unless your famous.I've heard reports that the Trenchcoat twits orchestrated their massacre like a movie. . . they'll probably release a video any day now on the net. What a sad freakin excuse for a life philosophy.It's probably not fair to rub your noses in this but many of us who don't live in the States see these events as being the inevitable culmination of your violent society's worship of "stars" and the mania for publicity which feeds the 24/7 talk t.v.etc.-pm
*Patrick,I never heard of the "Star Worship" idea but I think it could be a part of the push the kids that are entering the scarey world of adulthood feel to succeed and to do it in a big way or their a loser...You may be on to something there. I will look into it with the kids I know.As for my toddler idea, kids need lots of attention right from the cutting of the cord and depending on whatever if they make one little bad move that gets attention more effectivelly than being good, I think they just slip down the slippery slope and at best try to fight it somewhat and those around them also question their behavior but really aren't equipped with enough knowledge to know what is driving th poor behavior.Amateur Breaktime psychology, near the stream,J
*Seems that most normal people won't post their thoughts about flaming or dare offer ideas in solving the degradation of a board by such...Just those that have been part of it in the past seem to have the reasons (maybe defense or whatever) to get involved. A sign of the times and how kids can have half the barrel of a gun on their dresser of all places and the parents don't notice? I feel bad for those parents but the rest of you parents had better get involved with your kids enough to know a bomb factory is in your garage or their just fooling with the carburator of the mini bike.b Nothing will change for the better by avoidance.Sad news these days... I would like to be part of whatever helps us all live closer to peace, love, and groovieness,Near the stream,J
*Rich,I live on a lake and I was floating around on her the other day...
*Joe - I don't know how you can make the claim "I would like to set you straight though. . . I never overtly "flamed" anyone, I just responded to theirs. I miss very few points Jack simply because I make sure I know what I'm talking about before I open my mouth (of type on the keyboard)." In "Pressure Plans" I was simply asking question and you attacked me personally - and then you were proven wrong. You have so many times posted that you don't flame and that you don't start things, "methinks tho doth protest too much."
*Dan-Sorry for taking so long to reply - I wanted to see what others had to say. Perhaps trivializing was not the corret term but I don't think ignoring equals tolerating. Responding to sociopaths and giving them more excuses for posting and making light of it is what I meant by trivializing. Personally, I've switched to the "list" format and simply don't read some posts based on who posted - they aren't worth a click. I hope you don't consider this toleration - because that would be a mistake. I believe we agree on that.
*Bill,I'm not sure ignore = tolerate either. Semantics probably don't matter at this point -- I think we both know what the other's talking about and we both agree. I tend to just ignore stuff that I consider a waste of time too. But I (we) know that someone's gonna call their bluff. If nobody did, I bet you and/or I would.This thread seems to be heating up about who did what first... I'll probably cancel it from my messages now. But the important thing is that we did get it in the open, and now perhaps people will be just a wee bit more thoughtful. No kidding, aside from some little arguments developing here, it had been a pretty polite board for the past month or two.Off to float around Old Hickory Lake on my Dolly Parton Inflatable raft,Dan
*Joe,How could you possibly not call your above post a flame? It's not "hey I disagree so I'll have to leave it at that...Have a nice day buddy," kinda talk is it?I like your work Joe but I'll never like your disrespect you show when somone gets your goat. I gotta admit though the little flame graphic is cute.Near the stream, watchin the barby,J
*Joe,So you feel that if you post anything it's not a flame or disrespectful because you were the author and this is America, where freedom reigns?Of course you are free to call your posts opinions not flames but I am also free to say when your posts are like the one above, it's hard for me to see any respect and courtesy for me or Bill or others that will read this from all over the planet.I would think most people would say some form of anger is involved with what the "famous five" get into when they go after the messenger instead of the message.So you don't think some people are worthy of any kindness from you, fine. But I think as your Moma should have taught you that you would know the rule...If ya got nothin good to say, then say nothin until ya do. I guess it's more fun to flame and rant though ehh?Joe, Gabe and others...I like you guys and when your posting intesting thoughts or joking aroung telling "bedtime stories" or recomending the best way to toss a cow or tip a dwarf, great. But when the message is, this one or that ones mother wears Army boots or is in a conspiracy against one or whatever then I find it very hard to apreciate the messege. And that reflects on my need to ask for flaming to be kept to the "barby pit" and at least stopped on Sundays out of respect for the revolution of the planets about the sun.Near the stream, and not part of any behind the scenes email.
*By the way I must compliment the "famous five" for having among the best talent at flaming I have ever run into...You're all top award winners and I will be posting your honorary awards here for all to see so you may beam in pride from this day on!!!!Cheers to the "famous five", slaps and beer for all, near the streamJIf you think you're one of the "famous five" then feel free to hold the honor!
*Joe,There is no need to "sever" your chat with me by ending it with a quote of someone elses...You stand well on your own two feet...This topic was posted not to attract flames or flamers...It was posted to chat about how we can all learn to coool what goes on around here...Cool heads wanted, near the stream,]J
*Jack, are you saying that those of us who won't jump in and take sides with some boneheads stretching their egos are akin to the parents of the boys involved in the Colorado shooting? I hope that ain't the case.Just walk away, but wear asbestos socks, BB
*Buksnort,Walking away just gets you shot in the back!...No if that be the method it's best to move to another planet and hope they don't follow you through the "worm hole."I'm working close to sixteen hours a day so my natural energy is way up!! Ready to tangle with the whole d*mn "five of em at once if they wanta keep torchin up this joint!Near the stream and lookin the flamers in the eye.J
*Joe,I'm sure Bill gets no thrill from you belittling him, calling him names, and kicking sand and flames at him...You have your moments when if you were my child I would just move inthe night and leave no forwarding address. That said, you are close to not being the best at flaming and ridiculing others around here...I really think Gabe is beating down the stretch of late as you have stayed clear of teh Freddy bloodbaths and the Gene and Steve perscutions too... Hey do either of you have Roman or German heritage? Just a thought...We could blame all teh flames on firey genetics...Near the stream,J
*Bingo!
*Good night flamers...It was nice sharing the barby with ya all.Near the stream, one eye open,J
*JackTime fer a bedtime story ???-pm
*>"the Former Foreman's Story">We had to demolish the Johnsons old house.>I brought in the bulldozers, shovels and cranes>We tore off the shingles, we banged in the walls>We knocked down the chimney, we tore up the drains>We smashed in the windows, we ripped out the bell>We cut down the rafters, we sawed up the floor>We dug up the basement - then somebody yelled>"Hey, the Johnsons don't live there - they live next door".>(Maybe that's the reason Im not foreman anymore.)From "Falling Up" by Shel Silverstein
*Patrick,Thanks for the story...Its for my Friday night nighty night and just as timely...Near the stream, and half an eye open!J
*Right,they lived where " The Sidewalk Ends"First Playboy, then Dr. Hook, then my kids, man, what a talent!Can't believe he went to Canada, BB
*Hey B.B.Don't feel left out, c'mon up we've got lotsa room. . . we'll even take yer boring money at par!!!(check yer guns at the border)-pm
*No guns to check, except pneumatics baby. Money at par though? You a golfer? I like spanking the pill, but you'll have to take my willies at bogey.BB
*B.B.
*Hey, Shel Silverstein wrote "A Boy Named Sue".
*Not only that, but whilst reading from "Where The Sidewalk Ends" to my son this evening, he asked me to read "the Unicorn", and it turns out to be the lyrics to that nauseating "tune" by the Irish Rovers. . .. it's not nearly as "cute-sy" as a poem-pm
*Sean...Dump this thread in the cybertrash or send it to the archives from hell~Thanks in advanceNear the stream~J
*Now now JackYa can't rewrite history , only your posts :}Don't open the can if ya don't like red wrigglers.-pm
*
I'm tired of one individual thinking anyone who posts opinions that are foreign to him must be in some kind of conspiracy to mislead DIYers or sell their business or whatever next label there is to come in the future...
Can't we all post are ideas and chat about them without acting like members of the Breaktime "trenchcoat mafia?"
I vote for more reasonable discussion and less personal attacks
Near the stream, and enjoying American diversity except hate.
J