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When installing exterior trim on windows/doors/corners, etc… with clapboard (or any other type lap siding) how do YOU fellas/gals do it. I am looking for something other than just laying it flat on the siding. That seems to be the norm around here, but I want something a little better, with a tighter fit. I have thought about cutting out the siding where the trim will go, install the trim boards, then caulk the seams where the siding and trim meet (or using vinyl “J” channel). If I do this, I will need to go with a thicker trim than 1x material. Does this sound feasable?
Around here, the norm seems to be to lay the trim flat, then caulk all the gaps on the low pints of the siding. Massive amount of caulk needed, and it’s downright ugly. This is the first time I will be installing the trim like this AFTER someone else put up the siding. I normally take care of this kind of thing before the siding goes up.
Thanks,
James DuHamel
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IMHO the only way to get both a good looking wood lap siding job and one that resists water penetration is to trim first, side later. Because of the cost and availability of 5/4 stock, i will add a rip to the back of the corner and window trim as well as the frieze bd. At the bottom i will use a wood drip on top of the skirt. Proper flashing and caulking of these areas and the siding make it pretty water tight. If you have the buckaroos for 5/4 it takes away some extra time. To put trim over siding just asks for trouble down the road. Best example is the way T-111,masonite stucco or any sheet goods fail when cedar is nailed over the top. If the painter caulks and when the caulk fails there goes the neighborhood.
ah well, just an opinion. harder is sometimes better.
*I like cutting the siding and butting the boards up to it. I'd flash under the siding with 30# felt or aluminum so when the caulk is ignored for a few years the water stays toward the outside of the building. You do need thicker than 1x-- but as pointed out, you can use nice 1x and rough backer pcs of some other material (plywood, fir strips, etc.). BTW, a friend's house built here in the 1890's had corner boards laid over the 3" lap siding--with little strips scribed to the siding at every corner. Looked like a lot of work, though I'm sure you could do a passing job with a scribe and a Bosch jigsaw in not too much time.Good luck.Doug
*I agree with the previous posts that a quality job is trim first, side last. Make sure to put a flashing cap on the top of the trim first. Also an old technique for scribing the siding ends, to cut not so square ends tight, is to use a cut gauge. Basically it is a board with a slot cut down the middle that slips over the siding and butt up to the trim. Pencil a line down the butted edge, cut and install. No matter how off the angle the cut will always be tight.Bill Swales
*James,Good stuff here........that's the way we do it 5/4 trim stock put on first, inside and outside corners. Flashing underneath (copper, alum., roof rubber, etc.) Then siding.Ed. Williams
*I agree with the trim first approach. I like to use 2 x stock around the windows to get good definition and 5/4 (but wider than window trim) stock for corner boards. I try to come up with a design for the window trim that doesn't use miter joints, as they are longer and will open and look bad due to seasonal movement. When not using exterior sills I put about an 11 degree bevel on the top of the bottom piece of exterior casing. Another thing I do is not flush up my corner boards at the outside corner. I leave a reveal of maybe 3/8 or even 1/2". Goes nicely with the western look and much faster to put up. I try to cut my siding tight, so it "springs" in and avoid caulk unless the overhangs don't protect the siding. If there is any question about water hitting the side of the house, I flash the top of all trim, even block out boxes for the electric meter.
*James, I'd agree with previous posts , trim first and then siding. I saw a lot of tract houses in the Houston metro area and the siding/trim was applied as you described. I never could understand why other than it being faster. Cornerboards over the siding seemed like a good place for rain to get in and a fine home for a roach motel. Nothing to do with siding, but is Sartin's still in Sabine Pass?
*Hey j, Nope. They opened a place in Beaumont (by Parkdale Mall) in the early nineties (92 or 93). If you want to eat there, you gotta wait for about 45 minutes to an hour to get a seat. About 3 months ago, they opened another place on I-10 near College Street. Now they even have one in Nederland on Nederland Avenue. Man I haven't eaten there in a long time. Been to busy to wait for that long, but the seafood is definitely good.James DuHamel
*Hey James.......Are you in Beaumont?My late uncle, William H. Matthews, was a geology professor at the college there since before I was a boy. We used to visit there a lot when I was young. Great town. I still have an aunt and two cousins there.Ed. Williams(Sorry, I guess this belongs in the Tavern)Hope all is going well with the siding.
*Thank you very much for all the info.Normally, I install the siding on these types of jobs, but this time I was hired to do all the trim work. The siding was not supposed to be installed until AFTER I finished, which is how I normally do this type of job.Like all of you, I install felt paper, flashing, and seal off all the corners, edges and tops of doors and windows, etc... When installing cement fiber siding, I normally use vinyl inside and outside corners, and "J" channle. On this particular job, the client wanted Redwood trim. No problem, as long as I got the trim up first, and sealed it. I would still have used the "J" channel, but I would have butted it against the edge of the trim, and installed the siding inside the channel.What I am going to have to do is to cut out the siding on the corners, around the windows and door, etc... and install felt, flashing, and seal it all up. Then I will install the trim boards.With all of your comments, I convinced the client that this was the RIGHT way to do this job. The siding installer was trying to convince her that all of this was unnecessary, and a waste of money. I made a small mock up and showed her why this was necessary. She agreed, especially since all of you were backing my methods. Again, thank you very much. This will make this job go a lot smoother for me.ED:I live just outside Beaumont. There are actually 21 smaller towns that make up Southeast Texas, and Beaumont is basically the center. All of the smaller towns are suburbs, and are very close to each other. I got one of my degrees from Lamar university (associate degree in business).James DuHamel
*James, I did several doctors homes in the Port Arthur area back in 93'-94' while I lived in the Meyerland section of Houston. Was a hell of a drive but there was a lot of business out that way. Nice area. Bill Swales
*I'm in the same boat Jim. Sounds like I did it backwards too. The rain screen behind the siding will keep things from rotting, but on the stormward side of the house, it would be nice to keep the water out in the first place. Here's my after-the-fact solutions: Take a bisquit joiner and cut an angled slot above the head trim, where a strip of angled flashing will fit, sheltering the trim. Cut wood fillers for the V-groove or coved profile of the siding. These can then be inserted at corner and window trim. The trim along the bottom of window and door units should be beveled to shed water. Base trim, along the bottom edge of walls at the foundation, looks nice, but sure interupts the water path. I put it up anyway, though with a 20 degree beveled top edge. Except for the beveled trim, these are only ideas at this stage. I put a bead of caulk at the top of the head trim for now. The rest goes at the bottom of the "to do" list.Dave