Greetings,
I liked the Fine Homebuilding 194, pp. 70-75, March 5, 2008 article by Kit Camp about sliding compound miter saws. The Makita was the winner in this summary.
The things is, Amazon had this Makita LS1214FL saw for $520 – a good price. Two days after this article hit the stands, the same saw at Amazon increase in price to $630. More than $100 increase overnight!!
I wonder if Amazon was capitalizing on this review, Makita itself or if this simply a chance price increase that “just happened” at the same time as this article.
Any word on a better price for this saw?
Thanks, ATOMA.
Replies
How about a negative opinion of that saw?
Had one, the miter lock always slipped. I tried everything, no
luck.
Call the company, they said I needed to replace the whole base. Charged me $120.00 bucks plus shipping.
Probably an hour to take it apart and put it together again. Worked fine
for about a month, then...
Hey that's funny my 45's are all over the place again.
Went to work with a new partner-same saw. Granted his was a bit tired but, with in a month or two we switched to my Dewalt and neither of us
looks forward to using the Makita.
I think those reviews are to short sighted. Seams like these saws get
sloppy after awhile.
Henley,One of my gripes with the Makita saw in the test, and the ten inch slider I had for a few years, was the sloppy detents. My 10" never got looser, per say, but I was never happy with the way it locked in. I believe "mushy" was the word I had in my notes. It would be great if we could use the saws for six months and then write the review, but that is not too realistic. If you figure in the lead time, testing time, and lag time from submittal to publishing the issue, probably a third of the tools would be out of date. etc.The Makita was not actually my favorite saw, but it did the most things well and had the nicest blade. The top four saws were within one point of each other on our ratings scale.As I said in the article, you really can't go wrong with the Bosch, Dewalt, or Makita. The Ridgid is a nice saw, tooI think tool reviews are best read in combination with long term user reviews. Most guys out there haven't used all the saws, especially in a more controlled, apples to apples test. But they may have used one or two for a long time and that feedback is important to consider. To me it is one of the many reasons Breaktime is such a valuable resource.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
It's kind of a kick to have the author respond!
I know it's hard to get the long term picture in a review, that's
why I spoke up.
After rebuilding the thing, I don't like how the sliders lock out
is so close to the pivot point. Makes for a lot of leverage working
against it.
The Dewalt (non-slider) has a very solid cam lock that won me over.
I love my Dewalt 716. I think it's the best saw out there.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Henley
I have both the 10" and 12" Makitas and I wouldn't trade either of them for any DeWalt saw out there, on the other hand the guy I regularly work with has a DeWalt and feels the same about his saw over all the others out there!
That's why I think tool reviews are a big joke, its simply one guys opinion on the saws that he tested over a short period. I'd rather take the opinion of the guys out in the field that use these tools day in and day out. Much better review then anything I can read in a magazine.
Never saw a tool review in any publication that I thought was worth the paper it was printed on. I'd rather see another article on technique then tool reviews, of course I know I'm in the minority there so......
Oh, never had any of the problems with the Makita saw that was described above!
Doug
Edited 5/5/2008 9:17 pm ET by DougU
Yeah I know we all tend to get biased toward what we have.
That's why we all have to pick on the Ryobi guys. As flawed as reviews can be, how else do you get a broad overview when
you need an upgrade?
As flawed as reviews can be, how else do you get a broad overview whenyou need an upgrade?
Damn sure dont turn to FHB for the answer!
I ask the guys that are using the tools all day long.
Look I have nothing against FHB, I just have never saw a tool review in this publication or any other for that matter, that I think is worth the paper it's written on, just my opinion and I know thats not shared by the masses and that why the tool reviews will keep showing up in the magazines. I consider them a waste of time but again, thats just my opinion, I'd rather see more articles on technique or information that I can use, I dont have any illusions that the mags will conform to my wishes, hell I like reading them and will continue to, but not for the tool reviews.
Doug
>>I ask the guys that are using the tools all day long<<Unless you have access to a lot of guys using a broad selection of the most commonly available tools in a given category, that would be pretty hard to do. Closest your probably gonna come is putting it up for discussion here. This is one of the first places I look when buying tools. But you also ought to take people's personal recommendations with a grain of salt. We all know brand zealots. People tend to defend the choices they've made, often ignoring the negative consequences of their decisions. For that reason I tend to pay more attention to people who are critical of the things they have bought rather than those that say "my xxxx is the best".Magazine reviews are just a jumping in point when starting to evaluate a tool. You have to evaluate the evaluation as well.Steve
Steve
Magazine reviews are just a jumping in point when starting to evaluate a tool. You have to evaluate the evaluation as well.
I disagree but if you find the reviews helpful then good, the articles are obviously doing some good. Like I said, I'm in the minority on this subject and that's fine but I don't give any credibility to a tool review in a magazine that counts on advertisement for income. I'm not accusing any magazine of inappropriate practices either.
I look at tool reviews for the cool pictures, never read any of them.
Here is an example. I have both Bosch and and Festool jig saws, I think the Festool is head and shoulders better then the Bosch, my opinion and also that of some of the people that I know and trust that have tried both of them.
Andy Engle did a tool review on the jigsaws, he gave the Bosch the thumbs up, cant remember what someone said that his comments on the Festool were exactly but I think it had something to do with the way that it fit his hands? That was the negative to the Festool, nothing about the cut, just that it didn't fit his hands? I didn't read the review so maybe there was more but since I have both and have use both extensively for a number of years my opinion of that tool review was that it was way off base. I'm not accusing Andy of anything, as far as I know he's the second coming of Christ but I think he missed the mark on this review. It was one persons opinion on a particular tool, how does one take those reviews with any more then a grain of salt?
I trust the guys that I see regularly and allow me to try their tools out. I trust the opinions of guys that I know. Sure there are guys out there that are brand loyal, those are good things cause they will buy the tool because of its color and I can try them out, see how they hold up over time, stuff like that.
You had some comments about the Makita slider, I haven't had any bad experiences with mine like your saying and I'd guess I use mine just as much as you do, maybe I'm just lucky but I'll take that luck and as of now there isn't a DeWalt saw that I'd trade for. Not saying that they wont come up with some day but so far they haven't did it. I do maintain that there is no perfect slider, everyone of them has their limits. Maybe the Festool is the answer but unless the prices drops drastically I doubt I'll get the chance to find out! Right now all my extra income is tied up in gas.
Doug
Doug,Agree with almost everything you said.Your example with andy and the jig saws points out the weakness of anyone's opinion about anything. You have to listen to/read what they say. When I read tool reviews I don't look at the "recommendations" I read the comments about each tool--what they do and don't like about them, then ask myself if that particular concern matters to me or not. And even then tt's just a starting point. I know that someone who uses them day in and day out for a long time will have a more informed opinion, so I really value the opinions of people like you here.I know for a fact that I am hard on my tools. I throw them around in the truck, pack the truck too tight, bounce around driving too fast on country roads, etc. Things bang into them, I don't clean them often enough, I abuse them in use if it'll help me get the job done, so I'm not surprised that my Makita may be more beat up than yours. I think the single most important statement in any tool review is YMMV.The one thing I must take exception to is your concern about bias because of advertisers. With the exception of free trade mags like TOTT, I don't give that a second thought. I spent twelve years of my life working for newspapers and magazines in the editorial departments and there was a very strong separation of church and state between advertising and editorial. Free trade publications are another story though. The tail does indeed wag the dog in many of those cases.Steve
"Damn sure dont turn to FHB for the answer!"Doug,I respect your opinion and you have stated it strongly here numerous times in the past.Just to be clear, I do use a miter saw all day, every day to make my living. Just because I write for FHB doesn't make my opinion or experience any less valid. The guys there are carpenters, too, not desk jockeys. Not that any of that matters to you...Want to see different articles? Write one.- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Edited 5/5/2008 11:55 pm by vanderpooch
Want to see different articles? Write one.
Now that would be funny! You ever read what I write?
Look, I've said it numerous times, I'm in the minority on this subject, I don't care but I don't give any tool review in any magazine any credibility, that's it, nothing more to it then that. I would rather see other stuff in the magazine. If these articles are so accurate then show me one, just one, where they say that the tool is a piece of shid and you(the consumer) should not buy it! You know damn well that there are tools out there that are junk, why don't they say it when its so? I think it has to do with the advertisement dollar. Every tool does not fit into the "good better best" category.
Obviously the Makita slider isn't the end all to sliding miter saws by the reaction to some of the posts on this thread, so it would seam to me that they missed it again! I would have to agree with the article though, I like the saw, maybe accuracy don't matter enough to me and I'm a hack, don't know but I like the saw.
I don't know how important it is to you, certainly it isn't to me, but we don't all have to think alike on every subject!
I'm certainly going to try to stop commenting on this subject in the future!
Doug
Edited 5/6/2008 6:57 am ET by DougU
Doug,
No don't stop posting on subjects like this. I totally agree (God help me) with you.
It was just an article in a mag. I to do not use it for tool purchases, nor do I just take the word of one person's experience with new tools.
I guess I'm more of a mutt when it comes to what brand of tool I use. I have DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Bosch, Stanely, Delta, and the list could go on.
Maybe I am a brand zelot, nailerman brand, the brand that works for me and only me. Just like you only use DougU brand.
We use these tools because we know they work for us, not saying I havn't gotten junk before.
Nailer
Sorry, Doug. Hope I didn't come off as angry or upset. My main point was simply that the guys who write the reviews do actually use the tools to make a living.And that it's a reader written magazine.All right, that's enough from me.Cheers,- KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
"I just have never saw a tool review in this publication or any other for that matter, that I think is worth the paper it's written on"One man's opinion is always going to be just that: One man's opinion. Better than nothing but not the word of God. The moral of the story: Get your information from multiple sources. I'd give more credibility to a tool review than a typical newspaper article any day.
Gotta second what Henley said and add some other complaints about the Makita. Mine is indeed a bit tired, but it not that old, and there are things I disliked about it right away. Beveling it past 45 to the right, with a right-hand miter proved near-impossible till I hacked away a piece of the right-hand fence. The fences are too low. The plastic lockout button disappeared pretty quickly, and has been replaced with a golf-tee and a piece of duct-tape.One thing that's a plus and a minus about it is the flex in it. I know that if I need to take a hair more off, all I have to do is lean on it a little without moving the board at all. But that works against you when trying to be really precise.You also have to be pretty vigilant about keeping the undercarriage clean if you want it to work smoothly. And the locking knob on the front of the turntable is always bent from things in the truck banging into it.Other that that, it's OK ;-)Next time It's the DeWalt for me or maybe the Bosch, unless of course the Kapex gets affordable or it has some influence on the designs of the others.Steve
Some folks just like what they have used the most--familiarity. I use an old Hitachi, if it finally dies, I'll get another one. It has a limited fence and the miter and bevel scales are hard to read, but it is accurate and dependable and I know all its' quirks.
Thanks for your input, Kit. I, for one, liked the article and I think it was clear as to what it was.I am miffed, however, that the price of the Markita want up by about $120 a week after the article hit the stands. Whazzup with that? Have you seen this happen before, or is Makita (or Amazon) trying to capitalize on this?From the discussions above, it appears that the Dewalt is the favorite when it comes to long use, etc.Thanks, ATOMA.
HI ATOMA,
I handle all of the tool reviews for FHB, and I was the editor who worked with Kit on the 12" slider article. I doubt that Makita or Amazon would jack the price of a tool based on a positive review, but I guess I can't say for sure. I can tell you that tool prices do fluctuate like crazy, even during our research/testing.
When Kit first signed on to the review, the prices of the tools were one thing, right before publication we check them again - sometimes they are wildly different. nature of the beast, I guess?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
IIRC, Amazon responds quickly to market demand. All part of being computer controlled. There is a price range. If the number of orders tripled the price would increase. If the number orders decreases it will drop.
By definition the true market value of a product is the price a willing buyer will give a willing seller. If there are willing buyers, the willing seller frequently raises the price until there are less willing buyers.
In a computer operated environment like Amazon, it doesn't take long to adjust prices, particularly when compared to brick and mortar stores.
...and if it's any comfort, they are charging $750 at Northern Tool! Yikes!
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200327727_200327727?cm_ven=Aggregates&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Power%20Tools%2C%20Miter%20Saws&cm_ite=999648&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=999648
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I'm in Canada and am seeing the opposite. Tool prices seem to be coming down. Not in all categories but some.
I assume it is because of our dollar.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
In all fairness this discussion isn't a very broad view
of people's opinions.
I have The twelve inch Dewalt non-slider and am happy
with it. Solid accurate and much smaller and lighter then the slider.
That said I'd say do an advanced search and pull up some threads,
many different takes on saws.
I have the 10" Makita with the light and the laser. I use it every day and I also have the DeWalt 780 12" slider that I like and have used for years.
Since we are talking about the Makita ... here are a few flaws I found with the saw.
Every saw I have ever seen has to be calibrated out of the box. I check the 45 degree right and left and the 0 degree. On the Makita there are nuts for the tilt calibrations. Out of the box they were close but not perfect. I need perfect for my work. The table 45 degree and 0 were also close but not perfect. I had to loosen the fence bolts and then move the fence square with the blade. The detent settings on the table are a little sloppy. I don't trust them like I do on the DeWalt.
The laser is off a 32nd of an inch. If I try to line the laser with the mark then the line disappears behind the offset of the blade teeth. I don't use the laser for it's intended purpose because it is not accurate enough. The blade that came with the Makita is very nice and is as good as any aftermarket blade including the Forrest. Not having the higher fence on the right is a drawback when I am used to the DeWalt.
The dust collection is good with the Makita. I wish the collection bag had a zipper instead of the sliding tube. Emptying the dust bag is more of a chore for it.
I like the light weight and the large table of the Makita. Compared to the DeWalt, The DeWalt at about 60 pounds is a pig to carry around.
One thing I don't like about the Makita compared to the DeWalt is that there is no decent place to clamp the saw to my bench without interfering with the swing of the table.
Makita took a tip from DeWalt by providing a slot in the guard so you can sight down the blade without bending over. That is something that Hitachi never got. Don't get me started on what a POS the Hitachi is.
my only beef with the review ...
if it's the same one I'm thinking of ...
last one done in a while ...
"picked" the Makita over the DeWalt.
while the dewalt had bigger capacity ... weighed less ...
and cost less.
cuts more , easier to carry and the buy in is cheaper ...
couldn't figure out how the Mak "won" and the dewalt "lost" if they both cut nice?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa