FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

small shoert with big results

stemreno | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on November 27, 2006 06:47am

HI guys

 

I recently landed a a comercial job where we were to subdivide a large floor in an old ofiice building to make two offices, and rear entrances to a fire hallway.  They had an electrician to do the rewiring, so we ewere not to touch any wiring.  However, he was grumpy and slow, and we ended up with wires that we were told to move by the client, who also told us they were disconnected…

I had to pull a cable out of a metal box.  It used to switch something, and I checked it by flipping the switch…nothing happened to any lights.  Unfortunatly, I did not have my meter handy as we were told we were not to do any wiring.  As you can guess, the line was live and as I pulled it through  the clamp,the hot grounded to the box.  Nothing changed lighting wise, so I figured it was an end run switch line no longeer connected to any lights. 

The client eventually complained of some circuits not working two floors down, And asked me to look if any breakers were tripped in any of the numerous panels.  All OK.

 

Turns out that this floor’s panel was fed from another panel and my little short blew a 60 amp bus fuse so that one phase of the three phase was now dead.

would anybody comment on how the 15 amp breakeer on the circuit, the 30 Amp fuse on the sub panel did not blow yet this 60 amp main fuse did.  The client was unhappy and wanted to hold back some of the payment, claiming we were negligent.

Thanks

Stemreno.

Reply

Replies

  1. User avater
    BillHartmann | Nov 27, 2006 07:26am | #1

    First of all there are different types of breakers and fuse and they will have different time constants.

    But being otherwise similar a fuse will go before a breaker.

    The breaker has mass to move vs burning out of a realatively small link.

    But we have no idea of what kind of load might have been on the 60 amp fuse before the short. It might already have a 55 amp load on it.

    "The client was unhappy and wanted to hold back some of the payment, claiming we were negligent."

    Tell him fine. He will need to money, plus some more, or OSHA fines for maintaining an unsafe work area.

    1. woodturner9 | Nov 27, 2006 06:32pm | #3

      But being otherwise similar a fuse will go before a breaker.

      The breaker has mass to move vs burning out of a realatively small link.

      That's not an accurate statement, in general. While a breaker does have more mass, it has nothing to do with trip rate.

      Conventional breakers and fuses both trip/blow based on thermal heating.  Generally, breakers are designed to trip with less heating than a fuse, so they will generally trip faster than a fuse will blow.  However, there are many different types and designs of both fuses and breakers, and the actual trip speed will depend on the specifics.

      It's essentially impossible to accurately make a blanket statement about which will trip/blow first.

  2. Piffin | Nov 27, 2006 01:52pm | #2

    Hard to understand why he is unhappy.

    HE said the lines were disconnected

    HE said to do what you did.

    Not that I always listen to my clients when they have a good chance of being wrong.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  3. woodroe | Dec 01, 2006 03:42am | #4

    His electrician, his hire, his problem.

    You had to hire his electrician, back charge him for any payment held back and your time for trouble-shooting a problem he caused.

    You might also think about billing the buildings owner for your time if it was a problem caused by a person he hired. (won't build any good will though)

    You might rather take the approach with your client that you have had problems with the electrician (one that could have resulted in an injury). He has not been responsive to your supervision, (if you are supposed to supervise & schedule him), he has cost you money and you would like to hire your own electrician.

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

FHB Podcast Segment: Patching Drywall Near a Shower

Learn how to patch drywall above a fiberglass shower without totally redoing everything.

Featured Video

A Modern California Home Wrapped in Rockwool Insulation for Energy Efficiency and Fire Resistance

The designer and builder of the 2018 Fine Homebuilding House detail why they chose mineral-wool batts and high-density boards for all of their insulation needs.

Related Stories

  • A Summer Retreat Preserved in the Catskill Mountains
  • Fine Homebuilding Issue #332 Online Highlights
  • The Trump Administration Wants to Eliminate the Energy Star Program
  • Podcast Episode 685: Patching Drywall, Adding Air Barriers, and Rotted Walls

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2024
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers
  • Issue 327 - November 2024
    • Repairing Damaged Walls and Ceilings
    • Plumbing Protection
    • Talking Shop

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in