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With PT lumber, I used to gap deck boards, but found they shrink enough on their own if laid tight, to create a suitable gap. With more stable decking material, like 5/4 cedar, a planned gap is nice.
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BB, I am in the same boat as you, fixing everybodys mistakes (inexperience).
Friday I fixed 2 pocket doors. One I had to drill out a piece of the track were the "carpenters" nailed a nailer to and the other was a double pocket 3in to wide. I backcharge time with an attitude. When I am finally ready to trim the "drywallers" broke their joint at the header,so the taper built it up right at my miter I then proceed to mush the mud so my casing lays flat with the jamb.
We have trimmed 40 or so houses in this sub with 60+ to go and the money is alway's there, so I guess it's worth sticking around.
BB, do you worry about working for one builder?
I do small jobs with a house once in a while for another builder to be a little diversified.
Oh ya, I use my speed square all the time to scrape off drywall mud from windows,cut bottom of door jambs,find odd angles,figure out degrees,etc...
Blue, did you read the directions or has anybody taught you how to use one?
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Matter of fact, I assumed you do use a plumbstick AND a level. You probably even know the names of all the little marks on a tape measure.
I know our "cowboys" don't, 'cause the super conficated their one and only (level, they have no idea what a plumbstick is. Fruit on a stick?) when he discovered it was a half a bubble off, while checking a door that wouldn't close. The ceremonial burning gave them one more reason to raise a bud.
I ran a framing crew for 7 years, and loved it. I got one red card in that time, for fire blocking. Would still be doing it if I hadn't got a much more attractive offer. I do know what's good and how to do it ( with wood and steel, anyway). I also appreciate a good job and the extra effort it takes. Even if it does mean using a speed square.
Just get a little worried about seeing a cavalier attitude passed along to young, impressionable bucksnorts, who still have a way to go.
Jeez, if I had to trim behind you, I could probably squeeze in another house a year, and take afternoons off for fishin'. God, my kids might even find out my real name.
In search of the holy nail
BB
Joe is going to kick our butts.
*John, my man is an architect AND a GC, so there is always plenty of stuff to fix.He does the strangest houses I've ever worked on, so , a lot of challenging and skill sharpening jobs daily. Also, a lot of excuses to get more accurate and/or productive tools. Jack, do need more stuff for your rental biz, my sheds are full.A lot of other builders still call me and I honestly string them along. This area also has an unusual number of very good trim carpenters and cabinet installers who get along and help each other out, so , there's very little unwanted down time.Trim guys are the last carpenters on the job. We get all the stuff that was put off 'til the end. It's aggravating, but lucrative, I've heard.BTW, I spring clamp my speed square to casing at the miter and hook my tape on it for measuring long shots. Damn, another useful use.
*I give mine a half an hour of honest effort. I learned on a "man's size square", and just can't figure out what the draw is to them. If you followed me around for a couple of days, and really saw the true value in the franing square, you'd toss that block squarer and get down to business!I maintain that the slow, oops, I mean speed square is the worst possible tool that a young buck can pick up. Once they get that in their hands, they think that they don't have any use for a framing square. Can the speed square give you the sidecuts on an unequal pitch jack?The framing square can, but the knowledge to apply the framing square is the real deal. I don't use the square to calculate side cuts, but I can and will, if I need to.Blue
*Plese explain that clamping the speedsquare to the casing at the mitre to hook for long shots>Blue
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Okay, what is a plumbstick? And if you are there, Blue, Skill 77?
Dennis
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A plumbstick is a gool old boy's name for a level, which is used to plumb vertical items.
I can't find any reference to the skill 77, and therefore can't expain it.
Blue
*Got one of those. Though tried to use my older 6 foot to plumb a door, was off 1/16" - too cheap. Bought a new one.Dennis
*Blue, We use the the long edge of the speed square to continue the plane of the rafters in order to nail on the fascia at the correct height. I also use mine as a cutting guide on critical cuts. I don't have a slider, so I will do this on tall baseboards. I have worked with guys that have to use a speed square to lay out a rafter. Consequently, I have thought that alot of young carpenters will never learn to use a framing square. It is a shame because the framing square is so versatile. Although I consider myself a young buck, I'm 29,I always use a framing square to calculate rafter lengths and lay out the rafter. Despite my age, I'm a traditionalist. Please explain how to use the framing square to get the side cuts for unequal pitch jacks. Thanks.Cheers
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well i confess........i own a speed square....framing square and construction master calculator.....if one of the 3 goes out i can make do...........why not use them all they are all timesavers in their own respect and relatively inexpensive.......but if i had to use only one i confess it would be a framing square with the formulas embedded in the steel and a hole in the center for laying out centers of studs lol......
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Cut a miter on one end of the casing. Put your ( in your case borrow one from a rookie) speed square with the fat flanged edge against the side with the long point of the miter. Line it up across the short point of the aforememtioned miter. Clamp the square to the casing with the 1" spring clamp you have clipped on your apron at all times. Hook your tape on the square and pull to mark the short point of the other miter. Mark and cut. Do I have too get Joe two help me out here? I could understand if I did.
I think I saw JoJo do this on Hometime>
A plumbstick is actually just that. A straight stick( usually with blocks at each end) with a level held to it, used to check the verticality of a wall from top plate to bottom plate, or vise versa.
*Rebel3.57, I have to limit what I carry, cause if I carried evrything that was useful, I'd fall over!A tool saves times, but is the time that it saves, worth the added effort of carrying it?The calculator is so light, and a construction master is a good choice. I just happen to have my methods ingrained regarding a simple dual power, adn have yet to see an advantage for the things I use it for.I would also choose the framing square, but I rarely ever use the formulas. I find it easier to punch in the calculation, rather than the "solution" that you find on the square. For instance, if I were going to calculate the length of a common rafter, 12/12, and a run of 10', I'd punch 288, Sq RT x 10. How many punches would you need to make the construction master work?Blue
*I think I got it now, thanks.I'm still not convinced that I need the clamp, and especially the square.Heres how I mark the a long piece that has a mitre on it. I lay the piece down on the horse, with the short point lined up with the edgge of the horse. I then hook my tape on the horse.Blue
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I have a kid that works with me and still insists on using that damn square / triangle. I use a Machinists combo square. This tool is much more useful than that thing, for example if you want to rip a piece of material you set the square for the desired width and slide it along the edge of the wood with your pencil (sharp pencil, I have seen way to many "Carpenters" with a dull pencil and mark a 1/4" line) and then rip. Try that with a speed (gag) square.
James
keep your powder dry
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Wdbuild, so you then watch the line?
Blue
*Watched as a young carpenter(not one of mine tried to build a bulk head over a nurses station that was a little a hip thing. As he recut and recut I walked over to the gang box and removed my framing square and walked over and after spending 5 minutes watches as he cut and fitted a perfit cut.b still the master of my little world
*Skill 77:Worm drive circular saw. According to FHB, preferred west of the Mississippi for framing.
*Thas a good way, just hope the piece or the horse don't giddyup. I get paid for stuff fitting tight, not just fitting. The clamp and the square are necessary for me to do that. If anybody else has more aids, I need 'em. BB
*It either is a good fit, or it isn't a good fit. I don't leave until they are all good fits.Try building saw horses that are sturdy, and lay a solid work plank on them. Blue
*I've got a 6' 6", and a 8'. I haven't used either in yearsBlue
*Okay, I carry one because a "real, union trained (yes, I am a firm believer in unions for the working man) carpenter used one while scabbing a side job for me. I believe in unions for the worker and when someone else is paying the freight. In twenty or so years prior to that, used a framing square. Nice for setting door locks, close enough, compact, and unbreakable, nice for good cross cuts. I clamp the wood with speed clamps to 2x12's on saw horses. Not fast, but safe. Craziest thing is I can rip more accurately by eye than I can with a guide. I think if I held the board with my foot and let the saw hang from my hand I could cross cut better, but this is hard on my back and for my small projects, not worth it. Lastly, this is dumb, but I sort of felt good because I was using a tool that "real" carpenters used. Oh well, live and learn. Dennis
*Crazy I tell you! Crazy!Blue
*Boy, I'll try that tomorrow. Thanks. BBIf the shoe fits, square it.
*SlickDennis
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I used mine once (I'll try anything once) and found it was good for...
Well actually, nothing.
Why are these things so popular anyways?
They don't come back to you when you sling them like a boomerang (like the big boys do), and the markings are so vague.
I have one out in the barn for any one that wants it! Free!
Just send me $25.00 for shipping and handling.
Blue
*It's one of a Zillion tools remodellers need cause they do things so infrequently, that they need all the moral support a full truck and some guys "trailer" load of tools gives them....I know as I have been a remodeller....Got to eat...JPlease no one check my spelling.
*So what do you use as a square? Or do you square. Ever seen an UltraSquare? No there's a fine square....I use my speedsquare for many things. Scraping ice off plates so I can mark them out. opening paint cans. Keeping the jobsite dogs away from my lunch...You only have to be creative in order to find novel uses for any of the 5,000 under used tools in your collection.
*Try cutting without marking for square....practice and you can do it way faster and as square as anyone....Freehand work is a learnable skill and b Frees one of many burdens..On layout....Tell me how you mark your layouts and I'll tell you ten faster ways that are easier and produce as good if not better results...J & Blue!!
*Go jack!Sign my name to the bottom of that postCopy Cat Blue
*I use mine as a spacer gauge between deck boards,leaves a nice,uniform 3/16" gap.I also use it to guide my saw for a nice clean,straight cut when cutting off the post tops for the railing.When done with the deck,I epoxy it to the railing standing straight up pointing south.Makes a great sundial.
*Sometimes I square, but only when necessary (usually not).Whats a ultra square?Hey! Trying to change the subject eh???That's ok!Scraping off ice plates? Suggestion: don't let the snow lay on them, and they won't get icy. If they have a little ice, lean them in the full sun, it'll melt it in minutes. Just keep tapping them as you walk by to get tht clean iceless plates. When push comes to shove, my framing square will de ice a plate five times faster, due to the superior leverage.I don't paint. Good use though. There's always a ton of other tools that will pry just as easy.Dog troubles, keep that paslode handy! I'm creative, but this one has me stumped.The best alternative use, that I could think of, is a hemorrhoid reparing tool. Stand the square up, with that pointy thing aimed properly, and sit down and enjoy lunch! That'll kill two birds with one stone!Blue
*Lay-out now that's a good one. Have you used a cheater stick for stick framering
*Lay-out now that's a good one. Have you used a cheater stick for framering
*First most speed squares aren't square when you buy them. The only one that I have found that might work for me is the stanley type where the arm moves.Ultra square........if we're talking about the same thing you got to be kidding?????????
*Well, I am an amateur - but a damn good one. I like mine for rough measurements and for squaring cuts with a traditional saw. But, with a worm drive and its long leverage (small deviation when cutting), I suspect I could keep up with you guys for a while. But, am a weakling, and my arms would give out carrying that big thing around. In short, I use mine, not for finish, but for rough and it works fine. Also, while it may not be perfect, when you drop it, it is just as accurate as before. Dennis
*Fred, I'm coming over with my 16# sledge to knock that block square (the one in the first pic).That's one of the best key rings that I've seen on the job!Blue
*With PT lumber, I used to gap deck boards, but found they shrink enough on their own if laid tight, to create a suitable gap. With more stable decking material, like 5/4 cedar, a planned gap is nice.
*PT is used only for unseen framing members on my decks.Cedar or other "newer" products for decking and railings!
*Hi, I'm J.D. and I'm a tool junkie. (Hi J.D.). I started out small like most remodelers, but then I got a tool catalog, suddenly I couldn't do anything without overnight shipping...
*I love framers who refuse to use anything more than a bunch of worm drives , compressor , and 50 nail guns. Anymore would slow 'em down. As a trimmer this is job security. You don't know how much I make off those extras. Ever so thankful, BB.
*Hi J.D.I'm very happy for you. Tool Catalogs can be very good things to have.You sound like a definite entry into the Milkbone Math Framing Challenge, coming soon....
*For many years, there was a ship anchor along side the highway about 10 miles south of my home town. Laying on it's side, the arms and flukes stood about 15 feet in the air and it always was worth looking at when passing at 55 mph (70). It was always a mistery to me why the owner had the thing chained and locked to an ordinary 8 foot chain-link fence. I mean, think about it...what was it he was really attempting to secure? Somebody snookered him though, the fence is gone and someone took it without getting caught, but the anchor is still there in case anybody gets any ideas.Steve
*I know you're a man of few words, but can you add more to your post. I am lost. How do you make more money because someone refuses to use anything more than a bunch of worm drives, etc.?Blue
*I only know a few words. I hate using them all in one post, but what the hell.For the past year, I have only had to work for one contractor. I trimmed 6 of his houses, and had to pass on one 'cause of time conflicts.None of these houses were ove 4800 sq'. I know, you're thinking I'm mighty slow (must be my speed sqaure holding me down). I am. I take my time and try to do my best, and I insist my guys do too. Now you're saying, he's got guys, and he can still only do 6 houses a year? Yeah,I've got two other guys! It had gotten to where we had to fix so many exterior doors, interior frames, pocket door headers and frames, arched openings, wracked windows, miss-framed stairs, deck railings, etc. and so forth, that now we've been hired to get the framing up to a trimmable sitution BEFORE the rock goes in.The GC hires what we call "cowboy framers" 'cause they ride into town with nail guns blazing and ride out with a cloud of bud cans behind them. There's nothing most of 'em can't eyeball, so no need for a level or a square. Everything is cut with a worm drive, even the can holes in the porch ceilings. But, they do get it done in a hurry.So, I didn't say I made more money, although I do 'cause it's all service call stuff, I said I make money on extras, and the bulk of that is fixing stuff the framers didn't. I am busy, and will be for at least another year and a half. You're probably a great framer, and don't need anything more than saws and guns and hoses to do a quick neat job. You can be flippant about your talents. It's just that most framers can't, and take throwin' up a house a little too literally.See what happens when you ask. Sorry, Joe.BB
*Many times, Billy, I've been accused of ignoring quality, at at the expense of quantity. It is a wrongful supposition! Our methods produce a higher quality job for the rockers. We usually put in more nails, because we are shooting them. We square our decks to the 16th. We square our walls to the exact. Since we only use straight top plates (we use the crookedstuff on the bottom, toenailing it straight to the line), our ceiling lines are execellent. We pound our framing tight, when necessary. Our cornice work is all mitred, nailed tight. If there are any cracks in it that an ant could enter, I usually put mastic on it because if you don't, after the paint, the cracks jump out at you. Our overhangs are straight, level, and clean. Every window is square, straight, and parallel with the floor, ceiling, and corner of the room.You would not think twice about buying a house that we stood up. The only thing missing in the equation is the useless blocking, and a lot of extra wasted time on silly components, and techniques.Since I don't mind long posts, here's a story.I was starting with a new builder. He warned about how tough the inspector was. I framed the first house and had horrible luck getting help (thats another story). anyways, we persisted, and got the thing done. A couple of weeks later, I get a call at home from the builder, about the inspection. A loud voice over the phone shouts ">Blue What, in the hell did you do on that house on lot 310?" I was stunned, but stammered "well we did our best, how much is wrong?" In a lower voice, "Nothing, you got a green tag, the first one ever in the sub, and he also put a smiley face and 5 stars on it!"I tell the story to illustrate that it is not the speed, nor the technique of the process, but the thouroughness of the individuals that are erecting the structure. If something isn't straight, we straighten it. We keep all measurements parallel, and therefore you don't need a level. If things look straight, they are straight. How'd you know I don't use a plumbstick, or a level?I do carry a torpedo, and it has been know to check 18' high walls! Blue
*Blue,You're working in the 20 or even the 1% league....and bucksnorter is working with the other 80%!!!!!Must be a "worm hole parallelism" out there somewhere as I am always pulling levels out of peoples hands and showing them how to get it right with a tape.transit and tape man,One_Eyed_Jack