Hello any and all,
I’m about to reshingle my house w/ stained eastern white cedar shingles. I’ve used a Bostich siding nailer in the past, but I’d like to try stainless staples. Does anyone have advice about the crown size that is best for cedar siding shingles?
Thanks
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Replies
we use a senco stapler with 7/16" crown staples, 1 1/2" long, and it works great.
thanks for the help.
Boooooo
Staples for cedars is bad
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Half the homes here are WRC shingles stapled with medium crowns. Maybe that's why we have all the earthquakes and tsunamis out here... the cedar gods are speaking.
Seriously, I ain't never seen nuthin' wrong caused by staples. They're only 7/16" wide, for gosh sakes. Helluva lotta guys shoot 'em on the roof the same way.
Narrower is worser than wide crowns.Your tsunami is on its way!;)
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What would be wide crown? Over 1"? 7/16 is medium crown I guess, sometimes it's called narrow crown.
I'm curious why you don't like staples. I know my stapler sinks the staples pretty deep and sometimes breaks thin stuff, so I wouldn't be using it on wood shingles, but surely some are better than my old Bostitch.
i hate staples ... we do too much residing and remodeling... you can't thief a shingle that has been stapled..
so you have to rip it all the way to the top
and i'd never allow staples on an asphalt roof
and , unless the staples are SS, they will corrode and fall off the wall and roof in our salt air
we use HD galv. siding nails for our wood siding, and SS for all the exposed nailsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yeah, staples are a b$%& to remove. I thought maybe they didn't hold the shingles as well.
They hold in the sheathing very well - too well sometimes, but they split through cedars and tear thru composition shingles.
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Thanks, I'll be sure to avoid staples for shingles. I wouldn't do it myself, just wondering why it's a bad idea. My old bostitch really blasts the staples, maybe they all do, but mine will trash anything that's weak. Actually, I find little use for it, but the staples are near impossible to pull out.
7/16" is narrow crown.Staple break the wood grain far too often. Look at the Cedar institue inst4ructions on how to nail shingles. They are very specific that the nail head should not break grain.Add to that the fact that 38 years of doing this stuff means I have had to repair a lot of stuff and I have learnt to hate stapels because it is almost impossible to repair normally.Finally, half the guys I have known who prefer stapling hav primary emphasis on making big buckeroniis and getting in and out FAST with very little concern for quality and little things like studying grain direction to jhelp the shingles last longer and warp out less.Don't let me bother you if you are careful and detail oriented. I know a few guys who can do a decent job with wide crown staplers carefully adjusted and used.I'm just an olde dinosaur.
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I thought Dinosaur was the guy with the cute kid and the hideous speedo.
Seriously, I never had issues with splitting, but we were always pretty conscious of comp pressure etc. As to them being tough to pull out, well, that's the point, int it? For remodeling and cutting into walls ie; addition roofs running into shingled wall, flat bar, hacksaw blade and a utility knife are all mI've ever needed to sneak em out.
Bing
Edit: I would agree w/ Mike as to roof shingles. Best money I probly ever made was on a roof that I was stripping as part of an addy job. Bid to strip the roof, and when the time came, it was stapled on. Roof rolled up 8 or 10 rows at a time, only limitation was how big a roll we could carry to the edge of the roof to the dumpster. 14 square Raised ranch stripped and ply deck re-shot in about 2 hours.Lesson learned ; no staples on the roof, ever
Edited 4/3/2007 8:04 pm ET by Bing187
7/16" is narrow crown.
What? 1/4" is a narrow staple, 7/16" is medium.
But I dont know squat about cedar shingles!
Doug
That may be. In terms of shingles, the only rowns I have even seen are 7/16" and up. Used to be I'd see guys order staples as wide or narrow based on thaat. Wide was 1-1/2, narrow was the 7/16"I refused to use staples cause I saw so much crap associated with it, so mmy eduation never went as far as noticing they made even naarrower ones.Staples an be handy for temporary tarpapering though!
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Like I said, I know nothing about cedar shingles but I use 1/4" crown staples to put the backs on sone carcases.
Doug
Count me in the dinosaur camp.
I'm still hand nailin' them.
Still hang doors by hand also. WITH SHIMS!
Democrats.The other white meat.
Still hang doors by hand also. WITH SHIMS!
Damn man, you are old school!
I heard you dont need them anymore....
Doug
I was thinkig of you when I typed that.
(Not in a gay way)
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Democrats.The other white meat.
(Not in a gay way)
Well I do feel better knowing that!
Not that theres anything wrong with that! Trying to stay PC
Doug
"Still hang doors by hand also. WITH SHIMS!"Who would try to hang a door without shims? I've seen a lot of stupid things but never that.
Haven't been around the tracts lately? Heck, it was even promoted in a Taunton publication.
The only new houses I've been inside lately are those owned by friends. When I'm there, I try not to look around too much because it's just too painful. Which publication is advocating for hanging a door without shims and how would you even do that, anyway? Frame the RO for a 2'8" door at 33 1/2" perfectly plumb with the floor perfectly level? Right...
The only new houses I've been inside lately are those owned by friends. When I'm there, I try not to look around too much because it's just too painful.
LOL! I've been in that same situation way too many times! Just smile and keep your trap shut!
Actually, hanging prehung doors by the trim and without shims was mentioned in a Taunton publication.
And a lively discussion is still ongoing. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=87762.1
;)
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I'm surprised they're using staples on roofing up your way....code is pretty specific about the use of nails next state south of you.
The roofs they used to staple locally, wide crowns were used exclusively.
Problem was mostly with roofers leaving the pressure on the guns high as the temp climbed and the crown of the staples burying itself through the shingle.
stainless???I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
It doesn't matter whether you damage the wood grain with stainless or with galvanized, does it? ;)
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I was talking about PROPER UsageI seen siding nailers blow thru cedar shigles too!!!that little dial with the gauge is called a regulator
:)I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Like I said earlier, I've seen a few guys do it OK.very few, so count yourself special.
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I'm not advocating it...I put my cedar up with a RAKE!!!I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
piffin,
i'm with you on the boooo to staples. they do ruin the shingles, they are meant for get in and get out work. there is something pleasant about nailing off a few squares by hand. you can be efficient at it. because nailing is the proper way, is there a pneumatic tool to do it. granted i say i like the hand nailing but we all know a little extra efficeincy cant hurt.
three years ago we put an addition on a drama hall at a boys camp in upstate, ny. the building was 10,000 sq. feet, with three stories of contiuous wall on two sides. we re sided the whole thing. four guys, stapled everything. i can't imagine hand nailing a job like this. can you? we kept our compressor under 90psi, and all worked out great. no breakthrough
sounds like staples were the way to go. i don't have a pouch big enough for all those nails. lets just hope it never needs to be re-shingled again.
"i can't imagine hand nailing a job like this. can you?"That is only 100 squares! I don't have to imagine. I've done it alone several times.
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really, how long did it take you? i remember falling asleep to the sound of the gun going off in my head, and every time i'd close my eyes i'd see shingles.
i tend to nail dormers and wrapped corners by hand, as well as any small job, but the shear size of the place convinced me that staples were the best way to go in this situation. not to mention there was a timeline that had to be adhered to.i agree that a staple gun in the wrong hands is dangerous though, and one needs to be careful to not compromise the shingle with sunken staples.
Average a square a day, but there were days I got up to three squares in a day.
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as i'm reading my previous post, i realize that i mis-spoke. the building was 10,000 sq ft. i can't remember haw many squares of siding, but it was much more than 100.
three square's a day is a good number for hand nailing though.
well, off to the grind.
but there were days I got up to three squares in a day.
Just make sure the HOs aint around on those days.
Else they think yer slackin' the rest of the week.
Democrats.The other white meat.
Used em for years ,1 1/2" e.g. Seen houses we did 20 years ago that still look " pissah "
Maybe it depends on the weather/ environment/ finish, but I've had very good luck with them on white's (limited ) and reds (lots and lots of R & R's). This was also mostly over red rosin paper ( before ty---fill in the blank) I've also broken the manufacturers rules and put 4 staples in an eight inch shingle.....and....."gasp" don't space my reds the rediculous sixteenth inch, either. They all still look good, ( no buckling ) so I stick to how I was taught.
Bing
The Cedar Shake and Shingle Bureau says that IF you're going to use staples, then use a crown between 7/16" and 3/4".
http://www.cedarbureau.org/installation/wall_manual/page05.htm
With that said, I used nails on my last project. I'm concerned with the way electro-galvanized fasteners can corrode with time (compared to the old hot dip method), and those staple legs are pretty skinny compared to nails. I just figured that it would take the nails a lot longer to rust through; thus nails would be a longer-lasting application.
My two cents.
They sell ring shank stainless nails for the guns also. up to 2 3/8 in my bostich gun.
Also less is better with shake. Every time its pierced is another place they can split and leak.
Two nails a shingle and two piercing instead of four. Also the shaft is thicker on a nail so it will stand up over time. Cedar Breqather is the best upgrade one can make on a roof unless you wil be open sheathed with stripping which is second to none.
we've done alot of wall shingling (and some roofs) with the medium crown staples, but I would'nt use the galv. type, only stainless. The oils in the cedar destroy those cheap staples. I put an extra metal tip on my stapler to keep the crown from crushing the wood. typically we have to staple a row then tap the crowns flush. Its real fast, and they go in nice. Also use the 4d ss shake nails in the coil nailer, but the staples are much cheaper. The staples hold nice esp. in good sheathing (1/2" or better). Great source for the staples is Anchor Staple & nail in R.I. Keep em out of the weather-they get bad if they get wet before you use em.
The Senco medium crown stapler I have has an adjustable tip that controls depth of drive very well. With a few practice shots you can learn to lay the staple right on the surface of the cedar. So easy a caveman could do it. Actually, I taught my wife to do it when we were putting shingles on our house.
The senco- whats the mod. # and would you reccommend it ? 1/2" or 7/16' crown?
My stapler is an older hitachi, I love it but its heavy by todays standards, and not depth adjustable
Let's see.... my tool inventory list calls it a SNS45XP, and it's a 7/16" crown.
One quirk is that it needs a lot of air pressure. Let it get below 90 PSI or so and you'll think it's broken. I'd had it a week and was having a lot of misfires, so I took it to the amazingly crusty old lady at the tool repair shop. She said "Don't even set that thing down on my counter, take it back to the job and turn up the air pressure". Turns out she was right.