Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 23, 2000 04:11am | #1

   *
   Finally about to realize my dream of a real shop. This is to be an approximately 24'x48' building that will be used for working on tractors, automobiles, doing welding, etc. I would like an all metal building to keep from doing a "burning man" number when the sparks from the welder and plasma cutter scatter in all directions. There are several outfits on the web which advertise "steel buildings", but I have gotten prices from three local suppliers (these are for 24'x48' that I specified as having 10'6" clear space in the center of the building and with two roll up doors and one man door). The most expensive is a commercial type building that uses a substantial steel I-beam as a column up to the eve height and the beam is then bent to continue as the roof supports up to the peak of the roof. The quote on this building was about $8300. The second was by Web Steel (http://www.websteel.com/products.htm) and which has a fabricated open trust/column that is sufficiently deep that it requires amost two feet more building height for the same clear space than the building using the I-Beam frame. This was quoted at about $7500. The third was from a local representative of an outfit in Houston, Tx, called Classic Steel Frame Homes (http://www.metalhomes.com/) that uses standard light gauge framing steel "C" channels (I have only seen samples at a home show, not a finished building). For 50# snow load, 10' walls, and 26 gauge siding, a 24'x48' "Classic" would run about $7600, but would require additional concrete work to raise the wall height and would also require additional freight charges from Texas that could range from $200 to $1200 depending upon whether I was able to have it included along with someones order of a house. (For either of the others, I was just hoping to go down with my flatbed trailer and pick it up.)

   OK, I have been told that I can get by with a 4" slab, but that seems a little thin to me. I have been told that I do and that I don't need an expansion joint in the 48" length of the slab. The Web Steel building only has 29 gauge siding, which they claim to be more than adequate. I realize that I will also need at minimum some type of insulation to prevent condensation from dripping on things and that I will probably appreciate some additional insulation if I choose to work there in winter. However, I am not sure of the best insulation to use in a steel building. I was surprised to learn that the available sliding doors were only slightly cheaper than the roll downs. I have also learned that one needs to read the fine print - an advertised "steel building" may only have a steel skin with the frame being wood and sometimes one has to dig pretty far into the specifications to find this out. I understand that occasional deals can be had on cancelled orders on metal buildings, but I have not found one that fits my requirements or that probably would require significant shipping costs.

   While I definitely want steel girts, I could possibly live with wooden rafters. I have been cautioned against the use of wood because of possible rotting problems even though I have seen rusty corregated steel siding on barns around here that must be well over 50 years old and I have not seen a particular problem with rotting wood. However, those old barns are significantly drafty.

   (Wasco county requires a snow load of 25#, the frost depth requirement is 24", the average December and January temperatures are 34 degrees, although it can get below zero for a few days each winter. Summer can get up to close to 120 for a week or two, although the temperature almost always drops at night. We only get about half the rain that Portland, OR, does but about twice the wind.)

   I also hope to build a wood shop of similar size in the near future, but hope to create a somewhat more interesting structure for that endeavor. (This is in the Columbia Gorge Scenic Area and the maximum size, location, and appearance of buildings are fairly tightly controlled.)

   I have probably exceeded my alloted verbal acreage here at Breaktime, but comments, suggestions, help, wisdom, and donations are appreciated.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 23, 2000 04:31am | #2

   *Geez Casey, a lot to digest at this time of the day.Regarding the specific buildings, the guys closer to your end of the street will be in a better position to help with their experiences.I was curious about your choice of a steel building. I understand the need for non-combustional materials for your welding etc. But, you can line the inside of a conventional framed building with metal siding and achieve the same protection. Buy using standard, local construction methods, would the cost not be compatable or better than bringing in a steel building from 1000 miles away?Chat laterGabe

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 23, 2000 04:40am | #3

   *Thanks Gabe, I haven't sharpened the pencil and put on the green eye shade, but my initial impression is that around here the steel buildings are cheaper. Steel buildings and pole buildings are the buildings of choice on almost all of the farms and for light manufacturing. (And pole buildings are not my first choice for a structure.) The Web Steel place is only about 80 miles distant - really close by Eastern Oregon Standards - and the I-Beam place is only another 40 miles or so.And sorry about the verbosity, but, hey, its still early here...

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 23, 2000 06:04am | #4

   *Casy,You say you don't care for pole beam structures, but in a sense that is what a steel building is...a pole style structure.If your structure is to be placed on a floating concrete slab, then 4 inches is not sufficient. Go at least 6 inches. If you are planning to set this structure onto a footer, and then pour a seperate floor, then 4 inches is OK for light traffic, but for heavy trucks and autos, I would still opt for 6 inches in those areas. I would also reinforce with 6X6 WWM or use fiberglass in with the mix.We have a few buildings using the open truss design; whereas the truss forms the column and is then bent to form the roof (gable shaped) and then back down to be the other column. These were mounted onto a 2 foot high concrete wall/foundation. A seperate concrete floor was poured between the walls. These truss "bents" are positioned approx. 8 foot apart from one another. Wood 2X6s were installed as purlins and connect the bents to one another. Wheeling Corrugating Co. manufactures many styles of steel siding; one such style being Channeldrain....which was installed on this building.You could use metal purlins instead of wood. This particular truss style bent had clips welded to it where the 2x6s were to be attached.Don't know who the manufacturer was, but the set-up was a strong one.Go with the roll-top garage doors; they will perform better than sliders, and are less drafty and easier to maintain.I personally would stay away from light-duty steel studs; they are best used for commercial and light remodeling applications. You could use a heavy duty steel framing package, and frame it in a conventional manner. Unimast (Minnesota) makes a heavy grade steel stud (they also make lighter grades as well) which would easily work.If you went with steel roof trusses, then you would have to weld them in place yourself (time consuming). The heavier grade steel studs are a "bear" to screw into.Why not build a wood building and then partition off the welding/burnig area? Build yourself a steel table, and mount a couple of vises at the corners, attach a ground to the table,and use this as a layout table for welding. Set up thick, clear or amber colored rubber belting to be hung vertically around the perimeter of your burning area. Any sparks flying from welding, grinding, or burnig will be caught by the belting and fall to the concrete floor and pose no real threat. If you fabricate things with a burnig torch, set up a burning table made of angle iron for the legs and sides. Attach lightweight steel sheetingto the sides as an apron . Weld angle iron clips onto the 2 side rails and slip in 1/4 inch flat bar between the clips. The flat bar extends from one rail side over across to the other rail. These bars form your table top and are sacrifical. Lay your piece to be burned on top of these sacrifical bars and burn your piece. All sparks will flow downward and any errrant sparks will be caught by the apron.I work in a steel mill. We use this type of set-up. Works fine. Just a thought.Davo.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 23, 2000 01:30pm | #5

   *Gabe;I'm looking at steel for a shop building also. Lots of advantages in the engineering, plus you can order them with all the options (skylights, different doors, already insulated) and they go up fast, of course. I was talking with a cabinet guy in the States; he got a 50 x 80 building with twelve foot walls, walls and roof insulated, a 10 x 10 rollup door, plus man doors and windows,white walls and galvalume roof delivered for under 16k US. That's under 4$ a sq. ft. May be more depending on snow load requirements, but that's still pretty reasonable compared to conventional. I may end up buying one across the border; guys here want 20$ a sq. ft (Cdn), and I'm having a hard time getting any interest from any Cdn. companies (also some US companies). Anyway, when you factor in labour, steel seems like a good deal.

2. 
   Guest_ | Aug 25, 2000 07:21pm | #6

   *CaseyRecommend you spread out your search area for a steel frame building contractor. I do steel buildings (workshops, ag buildings, etc) along with my regular steel frame home buiness. Keep in mind the following:* The larger the building, the sf price drops.* The eave height is to the top of the purlin. This means that you have to consider the z-purlin (normally 6-8 inches, frame member (anywhere from 8 inches and up depending on width of building) before you can come up with clear headroom at your side wall.* Roof pitch is nornally 1/12 (heavy snow loads may require a greater pitch.* Do you want to have a floor drain?* What do building codes require for live load? Wind load? Seismic Zone?* Overhead/rollup doors require a minimum of 2 feet from top of door.* Recommend spray foam insulation if you plan on heating shop in winter time (check with insulation conctractor for type that will not burn - icynene is one brand).* 6" slab* 26ga for panels* Skylights have a tendancy to leak over time.Are the prices quoted to you simply for a kit delivered (no slab, erection, windows, doors, etc), do they meet code requirements? Even if you are outside city limits where building permits are necessary, I'd still make sure that the building would pass inspection just as if it was going to be inspected.Keep searching until you find a contractor you are happy with. also, you may want to look in the yellow page for steel frame manufactures and talk with them to see if they have any recommendation or a list of steel contractor that you can talk to.Vince

3. 
   Guest_ | Aug 26, 2000 06:07am | #7

   *Casey,I am finishing up a 30'x40'x10' (WxLxH) shop building. I looked at all of the options. One of my criteria was being able to do the majority of the work myself. A second, subjective criteria was that I wanted a building that would look good and have good interior volume.Pole buildings missed the cut on three counts; I did not want critical wood members, even pressure treated, in the ground, erection required equipment that I did not have, and the conventional "W" trusses used cut down on interior volume and were spaced too far apart to support a ceiling.All metal buildings missed the cut on two counts; they cost about 10% more and the roofs are too flat.I finally went with a steel truss building. Like you, I did not want vertical web trusses (legs) encroaching on interior space. I found a fabricator, Adams Truss http://www.adamstruss.com that offers two styles of legs; web truss and one made out of 2"x6" channel. I don't think you will be interested in shipping trusses from Arkansas. These things are fabricated all over the country to pretty much standard plans. You may be able to find a fabricator that offers the channel leg in your area. My truss, insulation, sheet metal and screw package cost $7,600 delivered. I contracted the concrete work at $3,000 for grading forming, finishing, and materials. Wood for perlins, gerts, and end wall framing was $800. Overhead door with opener was $800 installed. Nails and miscelanious was about $30. Scaffold rental was $90. I brought in 70 amps of power and wired up a bunch of outlets and lights for about $350 in materials and trenching. So my total cash outlay was in the area of $12,580 or $10.55 a square foot.With the exception of raising the trusses (which required the incidental assistance of a neighborhood crony), I did all of the vertical work and wiring myself. Dale Adams, my supplier, estimated the value of my labor at $4,500. Factoring this in my total "cost" was about $17, 170 or $14.31 a square foot.Very honestly, there are any number of square post contractors here that can put up a building for less. And the fact is, it will be less building; it will have less insulation, it will not be wired, and it will not have a ceiling that vaults to almost 15'. And of course, they don't come with bragging rights.Vince is right about square foot costs. All of the suppliers and contractors I talked to identified 30' as the width and 40' as the length where square foot costs start to stabilize. Anything less and the cost goes up dramatically. Has something to do with the ratio of walls to roof and floor.Hope this helps,Steve