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I am interested in using a stucco type product on a home in Iowa City, Iowa. I am concerned with the moisture problem I have read about. Which products would suit the climate in Iowa. There will be limestone part way up the wall with the stucco style above that. Any help would help.
Lincoln
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Lincoln, DUCK!!! Hope you're wearing asbestos socks for when the flames come licking at your boots ... the professionals will come now, some may help, some may trash .. be afraid, be very afraid.
But please do stick around!! :)
Sorry, had to be said ... just trying to be light-hearted here ... LOL!! ... unfortunately, can't help you much, since i live nowhere near Iowa. The limestone sounds like a nice feature. Can you be more specific as to what stucco "type" you are looking at? Do you mean a particular kind of finish?
Mercer.
i (let the games begin ...)
*I talked with an engineer over in Waco, TX, Ian Giesler, who put me onto a stucco-type of material that has been around for about 27 years. It is called Grailcoat and comes out of Florida. I am in the planning stages of building an ICF house and will be using Grailcoat by the looks of it. It appears to solve many of the problems that modern stucco materials seem to have. In addition to "breathing" it also has excellent adhesion, waterproofing, and flexibility properties.
*Lincoln, You don't say if you are talking about traditional stucco or EIFS. I'm assuming it's the synthetic stucco(EIFS). I live in Des Moines and I don't think the problems you've heard about with moisture are as prevalent in Iowa as they have been in other parts of the country. It's probably not so much what EIFS products you are using, but that they are installed correctly. Most damage I have seen done by EIFS was because it was installed incorrectly. Improper or missing flashing seems to be a big factor in a lot of cases.Here are 2 articles about EIFS. Doing a search on this BB will probably turn up morehttp://www.remodeling.hw.net/frmArtFront/1,1071,'282~341~342~1027~1',00.html?Srch=Stuccohttp://www.jlconline.com/jlc/archive/exteriors/synthetic_stucco/index.htmlPS: There can't be that many Lincoln McIlravy's in Iowa City, so I'm guessing you were a wrestler for the Hawkeyes, under Dan Gable? Good Luck on your new house.Barry, from ISU
*The stucco supplier I found said they don't even sell EIFS for installation over wood-frame. The problem is, as said, moisture getting behind the stucco/insulation veneer and not being able to escape. The big thing is proper installation that keeps as much water out as possible with proper flashing & details, plus space for water that does get in to run down and out of the interior space. The "new stucco" is also portland cement based, and unlike the old lime-base stuccos is supposedly more permeable to moisture.With an installer who does things right, it should be OK. But the penalties for a bad installation are severe. I've noticed that the EIFS manufacturers are changing their products to make them drain more easily -- channels in the foam etc. Be cautious....
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Thanks for the warning. More than anything my wife and I like the look of stucco and really like the idea of no maintenance. We don't really care what the product is called, or what company makes it, but we will not tolerate a shoddy product. Any more advice would be great.
Lincoln
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Linc:
Several years ago, I operated a commercial plastering company installing both stucco(Portland cement plaster) and EIFS. Our stucco prices ran from $5.50-6.50/sf for three-coat, 7/8" stucco with felt-paper-backed self-furring lath and appropriate metal trim on flat walls. Our EIFS systems priced out at $4.50-5.00/sf on walls with manufacturer's recommended installation practice(backwrap at all edges, 3/8" caulk joint, impact mesh 3' up from grade, etc.) Backer rod and caulking by others.
We did lots of work and had practically a 0% callback rate, and never any water penetration problems.
At the same time we were getting these prices, residential builders were paying $2.50/sf for flatwork in either EIFS or one-coat, 3/8" thick stucco with synthetic finish. No trim, no backwrap, no caulk joints, and no manufacturer in the world would warrant their product in these installations.
Guess which buildings are rotting away now? I once asked my main labor sub what he thought of this type of work. His reply: "every time I pass one of these new subdivisions, I see where I'll be working five years from now".
EIFS systems have been used for decades in Europe with none of the problems we're having now. I can take you to houses here in Atlanta that are 100+ years old with the original stucco still in place and no problems.
Both systems are still alive and thriving in commercial construction where the products are appropriately installed. Call a couple of the larger commercial GC's in your area and ask for reccomendations for a reputable firm. Check the yellow pages. Ask for approved installers from one of the Big Three EIFS manufacturers(STO, Dryvit, Finestone) or their local distributors. Both systems will outlive you by a wide margin, if put on right. Stay away from Bubba and Julio and their beat-up pickup with the Ready Rent-All mixer in tow.
Downside? Stucco requires painting, and EIFS requires either painting or re-finishing periodically. Using the manufacturer's elastomeric paint for recoating EIFS should give you 10-12 years between applications.
It's just like everything else in life. TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch).
Personally, I like brick.
Best of luck.
Bill
*I think Barry and Bill have most of the facts right. The installation is the most important part of this assembly. But just so you know how to ask for what you want, there are basically two basic categories of these systems. One is Class BB'(Dryvit, EIFS), and one is Class PM'(Hard coat). Class BB (Polymer-Based) is more flexible but will likely offer less impact resistance to the Class PM. The Class PM (Polymer-Modified) is less flexible than the BB which means you might have to install more joints, but the PM is more impact resistant. You can, of course, add more layers of fiber mesh to make the BB more impact resistant but that too often isn't considered in residential construction. One last consideration is the fact that the Pj's are combustible (the insulation board) but so is much of the wall structure. I just saw a mall fire not long ago where bushes outside the Department store that had Dryvit walls caught on fire. The fire at the base of the wall spread quickly through the insulation board and up the multi-story structure. For days after the fire the finish coating stuck to the reinforcing fiberglass mesh and just flapped in the wind like a big curtain with the chard remains of the insul. brd and sheating behind. Something to consider.
*b TVMDCBill, I just filled out a renewal for my G/L ins and one of the questions was Do you or your Subs work with the material EIFS? Do you plan to? While the material, if properly applied, is probably viable, I could just image where my premiums would go if I asnwered "Yes".BTW, nice discourse you gave.Regards, Bill
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b TVMDC
I just finished spraying a stucco color coat on a 3 story, 6 unit condo building (about 10,000 SF) that had been painted with acrylic paint. In addition to wanting to fill the various cracks, I was concerned about adhesion between the color coat and the paint. So I used an acrylic additive (not admix) that I normally use on deck systems. Mixing ratio was 1 gallon additive to 2 gallons stucco. The slurry easily filled the cracks with a little help from a brush and adhesion is great.
In cleaning up, I picked these two plugs off the top of the ladder rail. It's the first time I've ever been able to Bend Stucco!
*You might want to check out the Grailcoat product. Grailcoat is a Polymer modified cement mix. During mixing and application no water is added. The Grailcoat product is flexible, Waterproof, Breathable (yes, and it is waterproof.) Resistant to penetration by insects, has a 20 year warranty and comes in several colors. We use grailcoat products on nearly every substrate and use it for roofing, balcony decks, siding and concrete overlays. Other companies use Grailcoat for non skid surfacing in places like slaughter houses, ship decks, water towers, you name it. Check http://WWW.grailcoat.com Ian
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b TVMDC
Thanks, Ian. The site you listed doesn't seem to be working, but i found them here: http://biznet.maximizer.com/grailcoat/index.html
Regards, Bill
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Our architect is pushing for a stucco look. Instead of EIFS, our contractor recommends a synthetic stucco applied directly to plywood. He says it reduces the risk of saturation in the event of a failed flashing, etc. Anyone have any feedback/experience regarding this alternative? Thanks.
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I am interested in using a stucco type product on a home in Iowa City, Iowa. I am concerned with the moisture problem I have read about. Which products would suit the climate in Iowa. There will be limestone part way up the wall with the stucco style above that. Any help would help.
Lincoln
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cliff
can you give an address or phone number for Grailcoat? also, any more info? we have a huge project in vancouver, b.c. and want to use a smooth coat cement plaster. everyone there is afraid of cracking. that leaves acrylic, but i wann't the look of smooth troweled plaster.
thanks
john