I do not know if all subs do this or just those in my town. The topic is : change orders.
I,m finishing up my house , so I hire some help for drywall, painting , trim etc.
The drywall or should I say drywall finishing, comes in looks at house give me a price. No problem. Not shopping cheapest, just reasonable.
Start work, next thing I know he measuring gaps in drywall, ” Oh this one 1/2 inch, extra $100, oh another $100 oh wall not perfect plump $200 . Then started compalining that house was not operating a/c yet, oh $250.
My question is, Do all subs look for imperfection in order to change order? I know you cannot build a perfect square house but mine is real close.
His orginal price was not cheap but by the time you added up the changes it was way out of ball park.
When told wasn,t paying all the change order, he packs up and leaves.
This house is not fancy just wipe and paint. just a spec house
Replies
Ask the guy if he nuts ! He gave you price and I would assume he say the board in place, and besides a proper sub trade of any sort doesn't pull prices like that ( retail price list style) from the top of his head. Let him walk even better tell him to take a hike.
Next time give the board and finishing out to same sub and ask around - building supplies ( the real ones - that service the trade) for a good sub, a good salesman is always willing to offer a name of a good sub.
To answer your question if this practice is common I hope not, it is not work environment with guys who care and consider this to be a trade and profession.
I'm a carpentry sub, and many of clients say they work with me because I don't go after the silly little change orders I just understand how on 25k-45k framing job I can charge a client 100 or 200 dollars to change a door size or relocate an inner partition.As with everything moderation the key- give inch watch they take a mile.
Anyway good luck, lose the guy- and find a hardworking tradesman to finish up.
brown.. if it happened AS YOU SAY.. then the guy sounds like a bait & switch..
none of the conditions were hidden, they were all there in the open when he did his inspection..also.. IF he had a written contract , it should have stated what conditions would trigger a Change Order..
that being said.. 99% of my subs work without a written contract or much of a Proposal either.. if a hidden condition or a real change occurs.. i pay.. if not they just do the job and move on.. it's mutual trust.. that's why they come back...and why i ask them back...
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 8/20/2002 9:59:13 PM ET by Mike Smith
Attempt to find drywall contractor who will hang and finish.
Unless you have done this before, and have assembled a good team:
Excavator will complain about soil conditions.
Footing contractor will complain about excavator.
Mason will complain about footings.
Framer will complain about foundation
Drywaller will complain about framer.
Painter will be complain about drywaller and trimmer.
Trimmer will complain about framer, drywaller and painter.
Contractor will complain about framer, drywaller, painter and trimmer.
An so on, and so on.
A good tradesman takes the cards that have been dealt and does his best.
Tom
It is my personal opinion, change orders are not for things that you've overlooked in your estimate. I tend to take it personally, if I can't give an Acurate quote up front. I always explain in writing, and in person. I explain that there might be unexpected charges. But only, If this turns out to be like that ,or that is not like this etc.. In other words, Things you can't know until you tear it out. But even knowing that, I can't think of any thing that cannot be anticipated, except for things that are out of your control, Which is another issue altogether.
I haven't been in to many situations where I have had to wait for other subs, but that can quickly change your profit margin, schedule, and stress level etc.
In my Opinion, Change Orders, or Change of Specs should be for the customer who changes his mind in the middle of the project. I usually cut them some slack,for the first change. If it is nothing major. But after that, I not only charge for the amount of costs, but also for the extra paper work. I think it is only fair, to give them a break.
I have been on the other side of that too . I overlooked something once. It cost me extra time and materials. The customer cut me some slack, and met me half way. In My Opinion you snooze you lose. that goes for me too.
"I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground"
Edited 8/20/2002 10:49:39 PM ET by Edgar76b
sounds like you got a bargain<g>
.... interior doors delivered before sanding done.... $250
....roof papered but not shingled, rainstorm..$500
...plumber forgot to install hydrant.... $150
....plumber turned off water to install hydrant..$100
....painter using eggshell paint, shows more imperfections.... add $400
....boxes and recessed lights cutout wrong, need patch $25 each
....hangar used 8' board on ceiling, not 12'..... $300/room
.... mud not stocked on 3rd floor, had to be walked up ...$10/bucket
no turn left unstoned
The guy who does my drywall finish always does the hanging, too. Don't know your situation, but a poor hanging job CAN create a lot of extra work finishing. Just like a hack framer can make a lot of work for those who follow if door and window rough outs are out of square or undersized, etc.
Maybe the guy did try to stiff you, or maybe the hanging job was less than professional. I assumed from your post that he'd bid before the rock was up.
The sub I use exclusively did a small job for me a number of years ago before I was working on my own. My wife and I asked for a bid to tape and texture; we were hanging the rock ourselves (saving money...). When he and his crew came in, they had to put in more screws, some of the board was on a different bias on the walls, we'd tried to waste as little as possible so we'd filled in small areas with multiple pieces, etc. I look back and it was kind of a headache for the finish crew.
He didn't charge me extra, but took the time to politely point out the things I'd done that were problematic. I had never met the man before, but because of that experience with him (and the fact that he and his crew do top-notch work), he's gotten a lot of work from me since.
I didn't catch that the first time. About the sheetrock Already being up. I think the contractor took the right position.
I have finished sheetrock that others Have hung. DIY's think they can do it themselves . They leave wide gaps. Butting factory edges to tapered ends, they cut there outlets too big. They don't understand why that is a problem. I won't finish a job that has been hung less than perfectly. Not any more.
I did a job for a guy that was so screwed up. I couldn't flatten the ceiling and it made me look bad. You came down the stairs and you look out over the Basement. And theres is a ridge down the length of the basement. Simply because he was trying to save money by using scraps, and butting cut edges.
I wasn't doing that job for the glamour. I ended up getting a BAd hair cut. I think. Sometimes you never know. How much is that worth to ya."I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground"
Sounds like your contract including your scope of work and specifications are lacking. It must be my commercial background, but half azz subs won't sign my contracts. Your sub saw you comming and went for it. It's not the subs fault. You can't blame a dog for being a dog.
Please answer honestly, did you just sign his proposal?
dl
As long as the guy told you this before he started, I don't think that you have too big a beef. Yes it is a scheduling problem but you should be used to those by this stage of the project. Just get someone else.