Are there any code violations in putting a sub-panel in our upstairs coat closet?
I’m having an electrician put in the panel, but I’m trying to find a location. Thanks for the input.
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I don't think it's allowed by code, and I think it's a bad idea regardless.
You need clear access to an electrical panel. Closets tend to fill up with stuff, which obstructs that access.
Big doesn't necessarily mean better. Sunflowers aren't better than violets.
There has to be clear access. It would be legal if somehow you could convince the inspector that there would never be stuff piled in front of it, shelves installed over it, etc.
There are two basic places that you CAN NOT put a panel.
In "the vicinity of easily ignitible materials, such as a clothes closeets" and in in bathrooms.
A friend of mine has 1920's house with the panel over the tub.
However, the is no prohibition to puting the panel in a SMALL ROOm assuming that you have the required clearances. But most closets won't have the required clearnaces.
But if you did then it would be between you and the inspector as to whether this was a small unitily room or a space where a "easily ignitible materials" might be stored.
There is nothing wrong with putting right in the hallway. You can alway hange a picture over it.
I had a customer who insisted on putting a pantry type cabinet in front of his breaker panel..nothing I could say would change his befuddled mind. This was in a laundry room, I cut out the back of the 7' tall cab. and parked it there.
When the ele. scoffed..HO says just do it.
Ted, the ele. weighs in at 250..or more. He stepped in to add a breaker, or sumptin, and the Home depot pantry floor..caved in..
HO had me rebuild the floor of the pantry..I told him the FD will be pissed if he ever has a fire..
we walked off the job when he said..." I'm not living here, it's a rental"
buttwipe.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
the RIGHT place seems to change in south carolina
in 40s it seemed to be in the kitchen usually near the sink
in 50s it was in the master bedroom closet
in 70s etc it was on/near stairs to 2 nd floor
now its in utility room or in garage
Placing a sub panel or even a main panel in a closet is acceptable if it becomes an electric closet only. You still need 3 ' clearance in front of the panel, and I can't recall the side clearances.
Take the closet rod and shelf out, and put the panel dead center of the door opening, so that when the door is open you meet the 3' rule. It is done all of the time in commercial work. Generally the doors are also fire rated, but not always.
Dave
Edited 7/26/2004 2:55 pm ET by DAVERICHESON
"Placing sub panel or even a main panel in a closet is acceptable if it becomes an" ???
I think that I said that it was accesptable (if there is enough clearance) if it is no longer used for storing clothing.
But you have to convice the inspector that the clothes closet is now a utility closet.
> Placing a sub panel or even a main panel in a closet is acceptable if it becomes an electric closet only.
That's exactly what I'm doing upstairs. Expanding the landing at the top of the stairs reduced the depth of one closet to only 7", so the remaining closet door functions only to hide the panel.
-- J.S.
7" deep closet
I like that. And you have phone connections, etc, down below in the same closet.
No problem for people who live in the house. But how may guests are going to open that door looking for a bathroom and smack their nose on the panel? <G>
I put ours in the hallway and a 5'x7' quilt hangs over it. If I need to access it, I just drape the quilt over the open panel door and the quilt keeps it open.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Actually, it's right across the hall from a bathroom door. ;-)
-- J.S.
You still need 3 ' clearance in front of the panel, and I can't recall the side clearances.
Technically you don't need the three feet unless the panel is energized when working on it. Why would you work on an energized panel? Well, if say there was a life support system hooked up on one of the circuits for one.
I came up against this with my inspector, and no, my subpanel would not be worked on energized. However, he didn't seem too convinced by my interpretation of code. Mine was in a pantry and probably three inches shy of that 36 inch spec. He basically said that the head building inspector left it up to him to make the call. I really don't think he was interested in the "energized" argument, he just figured three inches wasn't that big of a deal, plus the panel actually was halfway further into the proper clearance for everyone to be happy.
"Why would you work on an energized panel?"
Why would you bother to de-energize the panel? Reset all the clocks, VCRs, etc in the house? Maybe a homeowner with a serious electron-phobia. But someone who does wiring routinely? Nah.
Work-in-progress, I'll leave a cardboard insert over the open panel. Cause carps and plumbers etc are swinging boards and occasionally metallic objects around.
But when once completed, and replacing a breaker or running a new line? I only turn off the circuit I'm are working on. Some electricians tighten the main lugs barehanded by standing on some cardboard. I turn it off the feed for that, but I'm only a part-time wirer.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Cardboard, plywood on rougher sites, is great over panels during construction. Saves me having to run the painters out of town with a bender after they spray paint the buss bars. A large 'DANGER - HIGH VOLTAGE' and skull-n-crossbones motif, even though not strictly justified on a de-energized residential panel, seems to help keep untrained hands out.
Why would you bother to de-energize the panel? Reset all the clocks, VCRs, etc in the house? Maybe a homeowner with a serious electron-phobia. But someone who does wiring routinely?
Well, if I've got a sub-panel and the only fit is going to be three inches shy of code and requires a host of hoops to jump through to have to relocate it, the issue of a sub-panel being energized or not for servicing or anything else become paramount.
I recently put all the video gear on a UPS. Its nice not to lose channels. clock, programming when the power goes out or gets shut off intentionally.
I'm still impressed with the guys who did my main. Carried the 200A hots from the SW corner to the NE corner, up a ladder and across a 30 ft roof, in the rain!
I just went through this with my second floor finish. I wanted it in a closet and pretty much every thing that Bill has said is right on. Can't be in a bathroom/closet, clothes closet And where ever it is, it must have clear access.
I ended up putting it at the end of my upstairs hallway and covered it with a mirror that I got from HD for 25 bucks. It looks great.
One last thing, I was told that it can't be in the same stud bay with any type of water supply.
Now all you have to do is tell your wife why it can't go in a closet.
Turtleboy
Okay, this is right from the current 2002 NEC (article 110.26.)
The working space requirements ("Spaces About Electrical Equipment") apply to "equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized." It's certainly likely that someone may want to measure voltages or currents inside the panel at some point (even if it's a subpanel) so you need to assume it may be worked on while it's energized.
You need a clear space 36 inches deep in front of the panel. That space extends from the floor up to the maximum headroom dimension, so you can't mount a panelboard on the wall over a kitchen base cabinet, for instance, because you'd have to lean over the base cabinet to reach the panelboard.
The space has to be 30 inches wide, or the width of the panel, whichever is greater.
The minimum headroom of the working space is 6 1/2 feet. The Code does have an exception to allow panelboards to be mounted in spaces where the headroom is less than 6 1/2 feet, but only in existing dwellings (it doesn't say how much less, so that's one of those things that will depend on the local inspector's interpretation.)
The space shall not be used for storage, which rules out putting the panelboard inside closets or cabinets used for storing clothing or anything else. You can designate a closet as space ONLY for the panelboard, as others have pointed out.
Finally, there may be local regulations that take precedence over the NEC, and it always boils down to what your local inspector says he wants you to do...in my experience, it's usually pretty hard to convince them you're right and they're wrong.
Edit: I almost forgot to add that you have to locate the panelboard so it does not have overhead piping, ducts, etc., unless there's some sort of additional protection provided (like a drip shield) to protect the panelboard from condensation or leaks.
Edited 7/27/2004 2:22 pm ET by Stuart
I wanted to thank all for their comments...
After reading through this, I think I'll go with placing the panel in the upstairs hall instead of the closet--and do the mirror/picture trick. I like the 7 inch closet idea, but don't know where I could do that...Perhaps there are other ideas???
Thanks....
> It's certainly likely that someone may want to measure voltages or
> currents inside the panel at some point
Well, you could say that about just about any outlet or fixture.