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I’m building a fence with 8′ panels (2′ of latttic at the top, 4′ 1×6 boards at the bottom on a 2×4 frame). I’m thinking of setting 2-3/8 metal posts into the poured concrete retaining wall — ten inches is about how deep I can afford to go. Is this enough (with negligible wind factors)? I’m then going to hang the panels between the posts, using 1/2″ lag bolts. Should I use two or three bolts per panel? BTW, I plan to cover the gap between panels with 1×8’s, presenting an entirely wooden fence to view, with the suggestion of wood posts. Any other things to look out for?
Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Michael
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What a wonderful trick!
The termites with go to attack the posts, thinking they are wood when they are ultimately steel and the rust gremlins won't be bothered because to them it will just look like a wood fence.
How exactly do you intend to screw those lag bolts into the steel posts?
*why not hide the electrical in the 1x8 box, around treated 4x4 posts?these are set plumb as you build, rather than trying to plumb/brace metal in the pour. Lots of braces, lots of stress, and lots of potential for out-of-plumb. Just two little plumb errors will really make you be creative to hide the error. But you will have the 1x8 wrap to hide it with, if you can.Just my humble opinion, but I can't stand lattice over 1x. It's everywhere, and it rarely works. Any lattice on the rest of the house? I didn't think so. Re-design with the whole house in view. What is the house sided with? Lattice over 1x can work, but I feel it needs to be hidden in the tree branches and foliage, not out in the open. But, few people think I have any design genius anyway. Itchin' to make them eat mud.10" should be plenty.
*Oh yeah, look out for neat ideasmine rarely work like I think they will
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That was my plan (confuse the termites and the rust gremlins). But what do I do about the rustmites?
Lag bolts may be incorrect terminology... I'm drilling a hole through the pipe, then slipping a bolt through and attachinga panel to each side.
*Because I'm setting posts into an existing poured-concrete retaining wall, I want to minimize the size of the post holes. I'm also hoping the galvanized steel posts will last longer than the original wood posts (though 78 years isn't bad, assuming the fence was put in with the house).The house actually does have a large, original lattice detail right next to the fence on the brickwork of the chimney (the style has been variously described as French/English Country, Rural Formal, and just plain Eclectic). The house is sided with horizontal siding, 1x12. I'd love to do that with the fence, but can't afford it. The side where this fence will be is screened with much foliage, as well (my wife also likes lattice).I'm glad you feel 10" will work for the post holes!
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just saw your reply
without meaning to sound like a nay-sayer, whats the plan to drill and set the metal into existing concrete?
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Nathan,
I don't mind you saying nay to a bad idea -- or giving me a better one. Thanks for staying with me.
The retaining wall is between 1' to 2' thick, and rises from level with the sidewalk to about three feet at the back of the property (or, I should say that the sidewalk slopes down...). The original fence had true 2x4 (actual 2"x4" dimensions) posts set in the wall when it was poured. Because of the narrowness of the retaining wall, I thought I'd get a concret coring company to cut 3" or 3-1/2" holes, 10-12" deep into the wall (I'm being quoted $35/hole), then I'd set 1-7/8" or 2-3/8" galvanized fence posts in with Quikrete.
The new fence gets placed right where the old one was in the center of the retaining wall -- it will look better and I'm not losing any space in the back yard as I would if I dig post holes just inside the retaining wall.
My thinking is that if I use wood, there's the danger of rot and I can't afford (and the retaining wall might not support) holes cored larger than 3-1/2". After I cover the gaps in the fence for the posts, the fence will seem to be solid wood anyway.
This make sense?
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All right, I have no experience with this. Feel free to ignore me, but....
Why can't you just pull out the rotted wood (easier said than done, I know) and Quikrete the posts into those holes? That $35 per hole adds up quick.
Rich Beckman
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Wish I could... The original post holes are too widely spaced -- more than 8' -- and irregularly spaced. I'm also concerned about plumb. The size of the holes (2"x3") won't give me the room to adjust the angle of the new post. The money I save on coring, I'll spend on labor (my time, really) 'cause I won't be able to assembly-line standard panels.
Good thought, though -- and a question well worth asking.
Michael
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Sounds sensible, but I might use an epoxy filler instead of quickcrete.
Epoxy will give maximum positive adhesion, permanently transferring rotational loads directly into the foundation, instead of weakening the new cold joint over time. Your description of the size of the hole versus the size of the post leaves me worried. ( best case is 1 7/8 post in 3 1/2 hole. This leaves roughly 3/4" quickcrete around the post. Seems sketchy to me).
To epoxy, simply drill a hole around 1/4" larger than the size of the post. Epoxy fills the void, bonds to the post, and really bonds to the concrete. Your left with as much concrete sidewall as possible. The joint is not affected by water penetration, so is resilient to expansion, contraction.
You may even be able to rent a roto hammer with a 2 1/8" bit from the rental in your 'hood. This would save you the bucks, and you'll be be glad because the epoxy isn't cheap. Look for the kind that comes with a disposable mixing spindle, in one cartridge, which use a standard one barrel caulk gun, rather than a special two barrel gun which mixes the hardener with the epoxy as you squeeze. (That gun is extra, and is not cheap). The only drawback to the system that premixes the epoxy is that the tube needs to be used within 15 minutes or so, after mixing.
You could ease the removal of the existing post wood by using a 1" auger to remove material, break the remaining into vertical peices with a chisel, and lift out. (Then use that quickcrete you have left over from the patio you did to fill these voids).
Sounds like you will have a cool fence, with the lighting and all. What does 75 year old lattice look like? Could you duplicate it?
*You might consider using chain link fence posts and accessories. The posts are galvanized. You can use u-bolts around the posts and through the 2"x material that will support the lattice. Countersink the nuts. The less drilling into the posts, the better .....it's a place for rust to start. Residential posts are nothing but tubing these days .......you may either want to upgrade to a schedule 40 post (much more $) or fill them with concrete. Make sure you cap them to keep water out. Almost all fences I worked on had the posts spaced 7' to 10', depending on the total length of the fence. Ditto Nathan's comments on hole size. On pool installations we used to drill 1/2" to 3/4" larger than the post size and used a hydraulic cement (Quik-Rok) .....sets up fast and we could finish up the same day. If you use Quick-Crete you may find problems with the aggregate in the mix fitting in the hole.
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I appreciate your suggestions -- I'll look into the epoxy. Do I need a larger post (2-3/8) or will 1-7/8 work as well? I'm considering renting a roto hammer but wonder whether its worth it to pay someone else to do the work (11 holes at $35, vs. my aching back). I can certainly have the holes cored at a smaller diameter for less $.
How do you get the epoxy down into the 1/4" gap between post and concrete? Coat the pipe first?
I'm looking out my window right now at the lattice on the chimney. It's more substantial than the stuff you get today -- probably 1-1/2x1/4" (certainly custom built). I'm not sure I want to spend the time and $ to duplicate it -- the fence is on the side of the house, screened by foliage. What do you think of using the vinyl lattice?
Thanks again.
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the roto does all the work, really. Gravity is just about all the bit needs with the percussion chipping away. The only work is clearing the bit as necessary of dust to keep from seizing. Then pulling the bit out can be a bit of strain. Really, you'll do well. Can you imagine union workers using tools that would require them to actually strain themselves? Yeah, right.
The tubes come with a nozzle, and after one or two you'll have it down. No air gaps, pretty easy.
Mention vinyl again, and you'll be cut off. 86'd. Shunned. Gauntlet. This mention is free, though. If you have a nice house, find a way to put the same thing on top of the fence. Even though the two details are not next to each other, you'll have to go to sleep at night knowing that it
i could've been
right.
Ditto the comments on steel quality. The U-boats idea is great. You'll be able to easily adjust for height and plumb, rather than risking a layout error on the drilling
*the roto does all the work, really. Gravity is just about all the bit needs with the percussion chipping away. The only work is clearing the bit as necessary of dust to keep from seizing. Then pulling the bit out can be a bit of strain. Really, you'll do well. Can you imagine union workers using tools that would require them to actually strain themselves? Yeah, right.The tubes come with a nozzle, and after one or two you'll have it down. No air gaps, pretty easy.Mention vinyl again, and you'll be cut off. 86'd. Shunned. Gauntlet. This mention is free, though. If you have a nice house, find a way to put the same thing on top of the fence. Even though the two details are not next to each other, you'll have to go to sleep at night knowing that it i could've been right.Ditto the comments on steel quality.
*Michael-I came across a neat book, "How to Build Wooden Gates and Picket Fences", Kevin Geist, Stackpole Books. At amazon.comMight give you some ideas and tipskeep yer digits, Nate
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Everyone has been very helpful. I'm going to see if I can match the lattice on my house (yes, I'll sleep better). Since the house has siding, I'm going to find out how expensive it would be to use siding (I know I can't afford to match it exactly; the 1922 siding is wider than stock siding is now). U-boats to attach the fence is going to save me a lot of hassle. Ditto the epoxy.
Thank you everyone for the tough love.
Michael
P.S. If you're interested, I might try to figure out how to post pictures of the process -- or at least let you know how it went.
*Look around a little for that siding. If needed, you can post what the siding is here, and the vicinity of your house, and someone will know where you can get it. The price might not be as bad as you think. Purchase a little extra for that future patio door addition, kitchen extension or what have you. Be nice to have some ready to go.next to the saltwater,nw
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A few more thoughts ......set your end posts first, run a line between the posts at the proper height. You may have to set an additional post(s)if the slope changes along the fence line. The string should go on the side the the lattice will be on ....if you use different diameter posts, they will be in the same plane. A pipe cutter works fine to cut the posts to length. Cut the posts to length after they are set using your line for the proper height. The exception to this is where posts are up against a house or other obstruction. Cut to length before you set them. There is a 4 wheel pipe cutter if you get in a spot where you can't use a regular pipe cutter. Rental yards or plumber friends should have them. If you need a gate, you may be able to adapt a chain link gate and hardware for your purpose. Just make sure you have the proper size posts for the hardware.
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I'm actually kinda touched (in the heartfelt way). Thanks for all the suggestions and support. I'll be back to ask more questions -- thanks in advance for the patient advice I know I'll get.
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attach the panels to the posts with U-bolts like they use to put exhaust systems on cars........
*Don't get all sappy here Mike. You haven't drilled one hole yet, and your making this sound like it was a beautiful thing. See what happened to the guy posted his problems with the generaling of his own foundation. These are a bunch of wolves in sheeps .... Don't come back here without beautiful pictures of a clean landscaped sidewalk illumined by glowing handmade fixtures set into posts that are strung with handripped lattice from clear redwood. All over the last 12" siding found within a days drive. "I tried to do a good job, but, I just couldn't " will seem like being a wildebeast surrounded by jackals....
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It's a virtual discusssion. I'm having a virtual reaction about my virtual fence.
I'll do the best I can.
By the way, I like your virtual description of the way it will look.
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Zinc chromate should be applied to your metal posts. Take the time to do it right. This stuff was introduced to me when I worked at a metal shop. There is nothing better for stopping rust.
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Just when you think a thread has ended...
Zinc Chromate -- you mean as an ingredient in rust-inhibiting metal primer and paint? Or directly applied? I understand that zinc chromate is heavily regulated now due to concerns about its carcinogenic quotient (long-live alliteration).
The posts and and hardware (u-bolts, gate hardware) will be galvanized and protected from direct attack by water (covered with wood). Isn't this sufficient?
Thanks for the tips.
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Mike,
SIMPSON makes a piece of hardware for two different size posts. Stock number PGT1.5 and PGT2. Does exactly what you need, w/ a U-strap around the pipe, and "wings" for screws to the wood framing.
Have Fun!
George
*This discussion needs to end. This guy seems to live for any response and takes little time for a reply. Those of us in the trades know when someone is wasting our time. Half the hits on this location come Haney. Kind of weird. Next time I will take the time to review all correspondence before sending on any suggestions. I have a house to build and much custom fencing to install. Good by Haney.
*Half the time people post a question and then never post again, leaving everyone wondering if the poster is even reading the answers. And people complain. Now a poster comes back frequently, and someone complains.Note to DIYer's....there's lots of good advice here, but there's no winning here!Rich Beckman
*Damn difficult that's for sure....I'm the first to offer to help sell someone's tools if they need em sold.near the stream keeping it lean and mean,ajunless of course a good joke pops up...laughs and smiles always welcome...Flames never; even my own!
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I'm building a fence with 8' panels (2' of latttic at the top, 4' 1x6 boards at the bottom on a 2x4 frame). I'm thinking of setting 2-3/8 metal posts into the poured concrete retaining wall -- ten inches is about how deep I can afford to go. Is this enough (with negligible wind factors)? I'm then going to hang the panels between the posts, using 1/2" lag bolts. Should I use two or three bolts per panel? BTW, I plan to cover the gap between panels with 1x8's, presenting an entirely wooden fence to view, with the suggestion of wood posts. Any other things to look out for?
Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Michael
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Thank you A.J. and Rich. And thanks to all the posters who want me to do this right.