OK, know I’m not the first guy who needed to do this, so there’s got to be a trick that works! I need to remove drywall between studs to access wiring. I would like to go from stud center to stud center so that the repair will be easy. Anybody have a tried and true way to do this?
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A rotozip will do this easily. You could also use a dremel tool to cut on the stud and saw out between studs.Many times I cut along side the stud and add a piece to each side, usually just as fast.
How big a hole do you need? Just use a sharp utility knife. Keep scoring until you've cut through. No need to be surgical, as your tape and joint compound repair will cover everything. No real need to hit studs either. If it's a small hole, you can bevel your cut (Like the lid on a pumpkin!) so your patch won't fall in when you put it back. For a bigger opening, use 1x3 strapping and drywall screws to hold the piece in.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I need to go floor to ceiling to expose wire from electrical boxes for replacement. I also need to do this many, many times, so repeated scoring with a knife isn't the most desirable route.
Use the carbide blade from a FEIN Multimaster and it will cut like butter. This is the gold colored blade that comes with the tool. It doesn't create as much dust as the RotoZip type and you can fine tune up the opening if and when you patch in piece doesn't fit. Got to buy the tool first though. Oh well, you can always use another tool.
I'm an electrician. Worked for quite a few years for a company that worked primarily on old work. Renovations, upgrades and repairs. Our group was often referred into situations where other companies blanched at the difficulties of doing old work. Fishing wires into "inaccessible" and "impossible" spaces was a daily occurrence. Quite an art form that.
Seldom have I seen a situation where we had to tear up major portions of walls to get wiring in. Nor have I seen any requirement, this is Florida so your local authorities may read things differently, to remove every bit of abandoned cables. Normally removing both ends and any accessible portions and what can be yanked out without tearing things up is enough. If at all possible we used the old cables to pull in the new ones.
I don't know the particulars of the situation but I would, at the very least, double check with the inspectors about removing concealed cables. Not to cast shadows but some will make the claim that the walls must be torn up because it both increases billable time and leaves openings that make adding the wires by less skilled electricians easy. It pushes the costs and trouble onto the HO while the electrician come out smelling like a rose. That is unless the word gets out about unneeded work being foisted upon the HO.
There are a lot of tricks and techniques to adding new lines in old buildings. One is to either remove baseboards and mouldings around doors to allow access to the wall cavities, the wallboard behind the mouldings are opened up, or rout out a groove in the wallboard or plaster to allow access and cover it later with a new chair rail. This can greatly decrease the time it takes to rewire. Knowing and having people experienced in fishing cables can get a cable to just about anywhere even if you don't use these tricks.
Look for contractors that do a lot of old work. Checking with any local historical society will often yield the name of a contractor that has a lot of experience doing this type of work without tearing things up. Be warned people with this type of experience don't come cheap and these jobs don't go quickly. The savings come in not having to tear out and patch.
Of course, as pointed out on this thread, there are times, particularly when the existing interior is in poor condition and of no historic value, when gutting and redoing makes good sense. When the walls and/or ceilings are down hurricane and earthquake reinforcement can be added easily, plumbing and AC can be installed or replaced, wiring goes in quickly, insulation and vapor barriers can be added and the structure can be inspected, repaired and upgraded in detail. Sometimes the savings in insurance, knowing that everything meet the current code, and the reduced cost of doing the work while everything is open easily pays for the additional cost of tear out and redoing the interior.
Are you sure it's always floor to ceiling? No runs horizontally drilled thru the studs? You might want to map out where the circuits go and do a little attic/crawl space/basement exploration first.
-- J.S.
Did some exploratory surgery, all of ot goes up (to the attic) I'd never seen that done before.
I did some work in a 50's era house. An electrican friend of mine said that up and down was common practice then.
They use brace and bits and the where a LOT LESS holes to hand drill going up and down, vs across the stud walls.
Yes, but this is an aluminum wire job, which was a late '60's to early '70's thing.... Perhaps it was done by a guy who got set in his ways in the '50's.
-- J.S.
I've only done this a couple of times, so treat this opinion as half experience and half logical thinking.
First off, I went the 'centre of the stud' route once, and convinced myself that, with all the screws, joint compound, and in my case, an actual taped joint; this was a disaster.
I was shown a method where you cut about 3/4" in from each stud and then sister some 2-by against the studs to nail your replacement drywall to. It works, but I wasn't thrilled by it.
I much prefer to treat it as a hole patch: cut well inside the studs, then use strips of 1/2" ply as backer to put in the patch.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
2 ways....
1. About a 5/8" long sawzall blade (cut an old dull one to lenght) mounted in your sawzall. Hold the sawzall perpendicular to the wall. Cut. Make sure the blade is just long enough to serrate the DW paper on the back side of the DW amd not so long that it will try to sink into the stud. Go slowly. A lot less mess than with a zip tool. Hold a vac nozzel at the saw shoe while cutting. The sawzall will try to pull any nails that you come across.
2. Cut the DW to the stud. By hand or sawzall. Remove the DW. Do you electrical. Install nailers to the studs to hold the replacement DW. Do your repair.
Use a blade no more than 1" long to avoid damaging anything inside the wall that you can't see.
Is there repair that you are trying to do that could be done without cutting the DW out?
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I'm opening the walls so the electrician can remove old aluminum wire and replace with new. According to him, code requires that all the old wiring be removed. Naturally, the original installer did a super job of stapling the wires in. So, the path of least resistance seems to be to peel the entire stud bay above the outlet.
OK...You already answered my questions about cutting the wire and leaving it in the bays, or just making a hole at the top of the wall and pulling the wire out. The sawzall suggestion is pretty good, or a Roto-zip tool could do it with less concern about depth-of-cut. Niether approach is surgical, but I'm afraid you're looking at plenty of patching and painting not matter what you do.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
First id make sure the wiring has to come out. A lot of people want it out, and if thats the case fine, but im not sure that it is required. Second use a rotozip or old router and cut between the studs, put in some blocking and patch.
Depends.
If it is in a unobtrusive location, like a utility room, and I just need to get my arm in I sometimes cut in a double gang Raco box or a double gang low-voltage plate holder. I cut it in reach in to do my job and install the box or holder and a double gang blank plate. If done with some planning and care, at least get it square and level, it doesn't look bad. Some HOs don't mind the look and it sometimes blends nicely if painted to match the wall. An added benefit is that the plate can be removed later if needed and occasionally can be used for an added telephone, networking or cable outlet.
Another trick, for a slightly larger hole, is to take a book or other appropriately sized object and cut the hole, cut inside the line, with a bevel sloped out from the hole. Once the work is completed the same object is used to create a patch, cut outside the line, with new drywall. You could use the piece cut out but it will be a bit undersized and will sit, typically, about 3/16" shy of flush. Deftly done the patch goes in firmly, does not fall in, and takes a minimal amount of mud work, and no sanding, to get right. A coat of paint finishes the job and makes it disappear.
larger holes, the few times I need a really large hole and don't call a friendly drywall magician, I usually take lengths of 1by4 or anything similar and after doing my thing I screw the wood to the back of the drywall by shooting through the face near the edge of the hole. This gives me a lip that holds the repair piece, usually I use the piece I removed, flush. Makes the repair sturdy and relatively easy to blend.
None of these methods require messing with studs. Cutting down the center of a stud is fairly tough without using a RotoZip, small circular saw or a small grinder with a diamond blade. I have found that going stud to stud is usually overkill, A bigger hole than I need, and more trouble than it is worth.
I'm no expert at working drywall or plaster but it is often part of the residential electrical trade so It has paid for me to know just a bit. I have cultivated relationships with a few talented drywall mechanics. It is amazing how well and quickly they can do a nearly invisible repair.
At least one I know deserves the title "drywall/ plaster magician" and is worth every penny we pay him. He has a reputation as being the go-to man of choice for the many small, and short notice, patch jobs associated with repairs and remodeling. His card is fixture in many wallets of many plumbers, electricians and AC mechanics. He always does a fine job.
rotozip...
glue and tack a scab on each side...
rescrew drywall and tape and finish ...
get on with life!
You're gonna have a bunch of long holes all thru your house...
got for easy and speed.
Zip it all out at once ... scab it all at once ... patch and finish all at once.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I've used the following technique for years . . .
Hold a Swazall or similar at a 45 angle and cut piece out by sliding blade next to stud. If you hit a nail, jiggle blade around it.
Make horizontal cuts wavy or on an arc, again at a 45 angle.
When replacing, vacuum all edges and butter the edges already on wall with lightly thinned mud. Set piece originally cut out in the opening and use straightedge or 2 DW knives to push flush then knock off excess mud. Let dry and tape and mud like any other joint.
When I don't have to cut next to stud I try for a real wavy cut line, about ½" on each side of a straight line. Keeps it under one piece of tape.
Only have to use backers on ceiling for safety, walls don't need them.
Keep your cuts 8" away from boxes, floor, ceilings, corners,and other obstructions.
SamT
I'm just a little voice in the crowd. But I have to say that there's a cutoff point wherein it becomes cheaper (less labor intensive, less aggravation) to strip the whole wall or room of drywall. The material is cheap. If you're convinced you have to remove all that wire, and you have numerous floor-to-ceiling cuts and seams, you may be at that point. It's hard to assess when one is at that point. That's the fun of remodeling.
Read what 4Lorn1 is telling you, There is no reason to tear the hell out of your house to do this type of work. A good electrician, will remolding skills is cheaper that a low cost hack that leaves your dw looking like Swiss cheese.
When you change the oil on your car, you don't cut the engine in half to get the old oil out , Do you?
You will get some holes to repair but they should be kept as small as possible. I do remodeling drywall as part of my job for a living & have worked with several electricians , both craftsman & hacks.
Good luck
PJE
I agree, 4Lorn nailed it!
No need to remove abandoned wiring. A competent GC and skilled electrician can snake wiring all over the place with minimal patching. With thirty years experience, tearing up entire stud bays seems excessive...
I'd be tempted to forget about trying for stud center given you intend to do a lot of these openings. Much faster and cleaner cuts flush to the studs, and the existing nails or screws will not get in the way. The stud becomes your guide, and you can use a rotozip with a guide bit, or a saw.
No big deal backing up the patch panels with blocks or strapping.
If you have baseboards or crown, consider leaving them in place, and not going completely floor to ceiling to save time. Leave 3 inches of drywall so that you have something to tape to.
don't forget to slice and peel away a few layers of the paper (not all the way down to the gypsum) at the mating edges of the new and old drywall so when you tape the joint it won't make a hump. just barely wider than the tape works best- you don't want too much mud bridging the gap or you'll need another layer of tape to keep that from cracking.
m