Hi: Well I’m back with more questions. My builder has suggested looking into “Tankless water system” for our home. Besides electric we also have natural gas to choose from. My questions
Are they worth the extra money?.
What are the main concerns with a tankless system?.
Are they as worry free as I’m being lead to believe?
Finally whose system would you recommend?
As usual all of you have been very helpful. Thanks in advance for any replies
Cloudbuster ( today grounded)
Replies
i did some research last year before replacing my WH and I'm not so sure tankless is the way to go.
- gas would be much better than elec.
- the system size has to match the number of hot water activities that will happen at one time. i.e. showers, laundry, dishwasher.
- some states and maybe fed gov't have tax credits
- I recall the jusy being out on the actual conservation of tankless
I would have gone with solar but :
- no good place to put it
- subdivision bilaws prevent it (although with the current gren movement I could have maybe beaten that)
http://www.tanklesswaterheaterguide.com/
http://www.chilipepperapp.com/tankless.htm
those should give you a lot more info
good luck
I love that post where it said an electric water heater runs about$450 a year. well my total electric house is only $27 a month, so I got carbon credits for sale, who wants them.“Ilsa, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world”.
count your blessing, my elec runs me $27 a week and thats with a gas waterheater
They're not all they're cracked up to be. They are not particularly trouble free, especially with hard water, and the initial cost is so high that any savings would take a long time to recoup, could be as much as 10 years depending on your costs.
This is a common question, and if you search the archives you'll see much to read about both pro and con.
I researched this just a few months ago - also concluded that they're not all they're cracked up to be. Yet, anyways; maybe in another 5 or 10 years they'll have it down...
The apparently high efficiency ratings reflect a glitch in the measuring system (wasn't designed with tankless in mind) more than it reflects real-world performance. Also, they're more high-maintenance, and shorter-lived (5 years or so), than the alternatives.
Also - they only fire when you need hot water - but when they are firing, they're consuming a lot of energy - sometimes this means you need to upgrade your gas service or electrical service.
Google "Yates on plumbing", he's got a few good articles; other useful places are Heatinghelp.com's "The Wall", and Terry Love's plumbing forums.
For my project, we decided to go with an indirect-fired storage tank setup instead. If you have a boiler, indirect tank offers the best efficiency of anything right now.
The apparently high efficiency ratings reflect a glitch in the measuring system (wasn't designed with tankless in mind) more than it reflects real-world performance. Also, they're more high-maintenance, and shorter-lived (5 years or so), than the alternatives.
Are you a professional plumber with experience fixing these tankless units? What you are saying here is just not true. They typically have 10+yr warrenties on the heat exchanger. There is no maint involved that I can think of. Except if you have really hard water to drop the heat exchanger and run vinegarr-clr or some descaling agent thru it every couple of years or so. You can buy replacement parts for every part in the unit. If something goes wrong you don't have to rip it out and replace it.
With the newer models and reasonable water pressure you can easily take two showers at once. I have owned a Bosch Aquastar 125S for six years now and its been absolutely maint free. It has to be installed correctly though with the correct sized gass line. Also most of the newer units can be installed outside if you live in a reasonable climate which negates the venting need.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
you might want to check this out
http://www.seisco.com
My next hotwater tank will be tankless - electric.
Gas has some hidden costs - separate fluelines, raceways to the exterior; in renovations this can run into the thousands
You might want to check out the similar discussion thread in the energy forum for more info.
We completed our home 4 years ago and installed two propane tankless water heaters. A Bosch 125 HX (spark generated by water flow) just for the master bath and guest bath and a Takagi T-K1 for the balance of the house needs. Three additional full baths, utility room, and kitchen. I love them and will never go back to tank water heaters again.
Just make sure that you get one for your flow needs and learn what to expect. Make sure it is sized appropriately and you won’t regret it. We found that if they are temperature adjusted for the person that can tolerate the highest temperature shower works best. Then that person can comfortably shower with the shower in the full hot position. Why heat the water only to cool it down again by mixing it?
The exception to this might be a specific need for hotter water. Our dishwasher has a heat boost (if desired) to offset the lower water temperature.
I believe they are eligible for energy tax credits too.
Anybody that has researched these systems knows that it has been in use over in Europe for many many years. They are way ahead of us when it comes to energy saving and efficiency. I think the key to having a system that works properly is to do your homework and have all your present and future water requirements factored in the way they should be. Maintenance is not an issue with hard water. Having the same hard water and using a tank system IS an issue. Just replaced a tank for a customer this winter. 60 gal tank which has 3-4500 watt elements was only 6 years old. Hard water.
I don't think you will get a lot of positive info from the gas & hydro companies . They stand to loose millions. Same reason hybrid cars aren't being made as quickly or as affordable as they can be. Big bucks down the tubes for these money grabbing thieves.
Ignore the hype and invest in the system. You can't go wrong.
Just replaced a tank for a customer this winter. 60 gal tank which has 3-4500 watt elements was only 6 years old. Hard water.
Buddy, you ain't kidding. Here in Eastern Nebraska, we have hard water. In my neighborhood, which has its own wells, it's even harder than the city water. We're on our third water heater in 9 years. And I've replaced one of the elements in IT.
Drained it last June, the day before house guests arrived. Took me all day to get all the junk out of it, replace the lower element (which had gotten buried in the calcium buildup and shorted out), and put 'er back together.
In our new house, I ponied up for the tankless. $900 for the heater, then another $850 or so worth of install.
My missus said, "This better f&*#! be worth it!" If I never have to screw with another water heater repair/cleanout, it will be.
Jason
I am sure that I am not the only person that has drained (or tried to drain) a water heater after 5 years of service, the crud in the tank was enough reason for me to change to tankless. So far I have replaced both of the WH in my 2 upstairs rental units as well as having another for my RFH. All are electric, I have also replaced my Mother-in laws with a propane unit, and my sons last house with an electric unit. I will replace our unit as soon as it has a problem. Yes, all of these units are on city water, the crud was horrible.