Hello, I have to tape and finish some drywall in my basement. I will be using all purpose joint compound for the tape and then use lightweight joint compound for the 2 coats ontop of the tape. Finally I will use 150 grit sandpaper to finish it off.
What are we really trying to do here with the lightweight joint compound when we cover the tape. Are we trying to cover the tape with a thin layer of lightweight joint compound and then feathering it out from there to a nice edge. Is it o.k. if I can see the tape when the job is finished or should the tape be covered with a thin layer of lightweight joint compound.
Replies
"Are we trying to cover the tape with a thin layer of lightweight joint compound and then feathering it out from there to a nice edge"
Yes, exactly
"Is it o.k. if I can see the tape when the job is finished or should the tape be covered with a thin layer of lightweight joint compound. "
No, the tape should be covered....just
Drat. I did cover the tape while applying the joint compound but while sanding I sorta went down to the tape in areas. Not alot of areas but here and there. Am I busted? What happens if you can see the tape? Thanks
re-mud...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
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Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Just do another coat. Any fuzz of the tape or drywall will show through the paint. Most of the sanding will be on the feathered edge, just barely hit the tape with the sandpaper to take out any ridges.
Thanks for the good help. Any change in your professional opinion if the finished look will be a splatter texture. Might hide it. Some areas the tape is alittle frizzy the others I just went through the lightweight j/c and you can only see the tape so no frizz here. If the answer is still yes even though I will splatter texture the whole wall mayby I can get by with just re-mudding the areas where the tape a alittle frizzy but where the tape has no frizz I can just leave. Thanks for helping :)
Splatter will do a good job of hiding it, as long as the spots are small enough and random-like, with no fuzzy lines that are a couple of inches long or anything.
Sounds like you're using paper tape but if you're using mesh, what I do with tape that isn't covered after the final sanding is to prime the area, and in 30 minutes I can lightly sand the portruding (sp?) tape off and it's smooth enough to go on.
How do we dance while our world keeps turning?
How do we sleep while our beds are burning?
Texture might hide it. You can re-coat just the spots though, you dont necessarily have to re-coat it all. I would re-coat before trying the texture because it will be much easier than trying to match the texture later if it doesnt cover well enough. Put it on thin and the lightweight will dry fast.
: )
Joint compound over the tape isn't just for looks, but it give strength to the joint. If you can see tape you need to remud so there is about 1/16" covering the tape.
If memory serves this is an industry spec. not just something I made up. US Gypsom probably has the amount of tape cover in there tech papers.
Where diy'ers and inexperienced carps get into trouble is skimping on this cover coat and having call backs for cracking that wouldn't have happened properly taped.
This amount of cover is the reason most professional tape jobs are feathered out so far.
If you have a hard time getting the right depth as I do, a curved trowel can be a lifesaver. Mine is fairly stiff with 3/32" of crown which can be pressed down to nearly flat when transitioning to intersecting joints. This trowel is only used for the coat after taping and the center of the crown is the only part that's important since the edges will get filled with a flat knife.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Thanks IdahoDon,
WHY CANT THEY PUT THIS INFO ON THE BUCKET! Sorry about that. Just letting off some steam.
I used all purpose joint compound to adhere the tape to the sheetrock and then used lightweight all purpose joint compound over the joints because lightweight all purpose compound is easier to sand. Some areas I might have as much as 1/16". First time doing this so I had to use a orbital sander with 150 grit paper inorder to do my sanding cause there were more than a few ridges left when I was done. I hooked it up to a shop vac. What is the recommended amount of j/c under the tape?
What is recommended for a primer. Oil or latex? Thanks
If you have enough mud under the tape it won't pop. As far as I know that's about the only minimum standard. Maybe 1/32"?
What is disturbing are the number of partial tape pops that don't get fixed. By lightly running your hand over the tape you can clearly hear a difference when going over a partial tape pop even if you can't see it. Tapers hate it when I circle those areas.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Recommended primer for drywall is PVA (polyvinyl acetate), available at any paint store, HD, Lowes, etc.PVA seals the paper better than latex products, does a good job on sanded joint compounds, dries fast and it's about 20% cheaper too. You don't want to use oil base on drywall. BruceT
I never mess with all the different muds they have. Not ususally although I did try out that stuff that doesn't leave particles flying in the air when you sand (not that I have to ever sand <G>).BTW...that stuff doesn't fly in the air cause its near impossible to sand...lol.
I use just the all purpose mud. After my taping I just add a drop of water and a hint of dishsoap to the bucket and stir.
Just be sure not to use more than a drop of water...it goes a longgggggg way.
I always mix my mud in the bucket with a mud paddle to be sure its really mixed up perfectly. I find that real important.
Secondly- I always mix the mud once its on my hawk with my knife even further after each pour onto the hawk...can you tell I
like my mud mixed? lol.
Also...for newbies..even though it may be tempting after you have your tape up. Don't come back and second coat it because the surface feels dry...cause its not, especially on inside corners. If you HAVE TO do a second coat in the same day you can always shell out the big bucks for the convience, and use hot mud. The powdered mud. Use the 90 minute stuff.
On all my corner bead I use mud thatI mix plaster of paris in with a drop of milk (mix the plaster w/milk and water before you pour it into the joint compound). The milk gives the plaster a longer working time and the reason I put plaster in my mud is because it dries the joint compound over night and leaves less cracks in it for the next day other wise just filling the corner beads up with compound makes the drying time a good 2-3 days depending on how deep you've made the gulley next to the bead.
Have fun : )
andy
PS...when youre really starting to have fun you can buy some stilts....go to ebay...you can find them for about fifty bucks...YUP FIFTY BUCKS!!
I use my stilts for tons of things from painting to spackling to crown molding work. Buy the 18" ones and not the 24"ers or you might scare yourself before you even take your first step...lol.I was gonna sell my 24"er on ebay and get a set of 18"ers...I just don't ever need em' 24-46" tall...then I saw how cheap people are selling theirs. So I think I'll just buy another set.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Tell me about painting from stilts. I've been thinking of this myself. My ceilings are 10' on the first floor and 9 1/2' on the second.Can you go up and down steps?How high can you reach? do you still use an extension pole?I need to touch up a bunch of ceiling spots, and I'm thinking stilts might be the ticket. It is just about impossible to position lights and not have a ladder in the way.
Stilts to me are a necessity. Once you start using them you'll see what I mean. Besides spackling,Its great for painting when youre cutting in ceilings. No more need for ladders!!
Once you get used to being up on them you can walk up and down stairs.
To me, drop cloths are the biggest hazard so be careful when you set them up and always be aware. If you "know" you're gonna fall, fall into a wall if possible. In all the years I've been up on them I've never taken a dive. Don't get the big ones. You'll never need them. Get the 18" ones. They extend I think to about three feet. So you figure it out. If you're just for arguments sake...5'6" plus 36". That puts your head into the ceiling at 8' ceilings so..........plus when you reach up thats another three feet or so.
I saw some great deals on Ebay. You can't go wrong.......unless you fall... Just stay near the walls...lol.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
BTW...you might just see mine on Ebay after Thanksgiving...they're too tall for me. They extend to almost four feet.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
I bought a set 1~2 years ago. Threw the box befoe I tried them, so couldn't return them, not sure which height they are, they've been in the attic since. Tried them and got a little nervous. There's SO many times since that If I knew how to use them they would have been so handy. Haven't given up though, I think your post here may inspire me to invest in learning how to use them. thanks.
sharp...like I was saying...just stay near the wall till you "get your legs". The ones I have are the tallest (stoopid me!) and those a "are" a bit nerve racking. The ones I had before for years were six inches shorter and thats a lot once you're up on them. At least for me it is.They were stolen : (
I ran around on my 18" ones like they were part of me. So. If you have the 18" ones you'll get used to them in no time. Promise. Sure saves tons of time on tons of projects. As a matter of fact...after Thanksgiving I'm gonna use mine to clean out my gutters. should get a few stares from the passer-bys...lol.
Have fun dude
be well
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
Hey Andy,
Just went up to the attic to check on mine. They are the taller ones 24~48". I guess I was naive too to buy these, but I have some tall ceilings and wanted to also use them for external work. I just have to invest the time to learn, like anything else.
Thanks for the encouragment man.
charlie
sharp
Yeh, when I bought my second pair I figured the taller ones weren't much more money than the ones I had. Oh well, bigger ain't always better. But they work. Just a little unnerving at times and I'm used to stilts...so take it slow.
PS..MAybe its only cause I'm older now...lol
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
Try this site, Austinwills
http://www.drywallschool.com/
And remember to always go thin with the mud and the applications.
Cheers,
Ken
"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
what say you'll about using a high solids flat latex wall paint for the prime coat?
How is it possible though to make sure you get 1/32" under the tape? Seems like it would be impossible to me. Must be some sorta method one uses so you know you get that amount.
I could probably use stilts for alot of other things too. Thanks
P.S. That is a good site you provided
Edited 11/19/2006 1:00 pm ET by Austinwills
Edited 11/19/2006 1:23 pm ET by Austinwills
I haven't read the whole thread, Austinwills, but you'll find as many techniques and suggestions as there are people on this board. I've tried a lot of things over the years when it comes to drywalling. Sometimes you'll say to yourself, "Now I've got it figured out," and then along comes another technique to try. Thinning all purpose mud with PVA latex paint (as Dino suggested for his D-Mix) pretty well eliminates the craters and fish eyes. Using Plaster of Paris requires really, really good mixing. But at the end of the day, unless you could be a fly on the wall and follow a pro taper from start-to-finish you'll miss a critical step somewhere along the way and you'll end up driving yourself crazy with sanding and patching. I prefer fibre tape over paper tape on recessed joints - you know that the mud is going through and you'll have a fool-proof joint. However, it tears and bunches easily, doesn't do 90 degree corners well, can't be bent into a neat 90 angle (like paper bead can) and is lousy for surface patching - it just telegraphs right through the mud.
Like I said before, thin your mud down and do multiple passes. DON'T sand until the very end - the drywall dust will come back to haunt you 10 times over. Good luck and be patient.Cheers,
Ken"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
Do you use regular dw mud on fiber tape? I've always used hot mud because that's what it says on the package (!). Maybe they're just covering their a$$?
Sure, kenhill3, you can use hot mud - faster that way. But one time, just for the heck of it, use regular (not lite) mud thinned down with PVA latex paint (that's the stuff used to seal new drywall - heaps of fillers in it) and slather that on. Use paper or fibre tape and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the result. Happy taping! If ever there was such a possibility ;(Cheers,
Ken"They don't build 'em like they used to" And as my Dad always added... "Thank God!"
PVA latex paint.? I live in a small town so choices are sherwin williams and wal-mart. When I go in to the store should I just ask the guy for PVA latex paint, is that what it is called? Never heard of it before. Do they have it at both wal-mart and sherwin williams?
I assume that the 1/32" is the minimum but it is exceptable if you have more than that under the tape. You just don't want to have enough that there is a noticable hump in the area. Thanks for all the replies.
Edited 11/19/2006 4:49 pm ET by Austinwills
Edited 11/19/2006 4:54 pm ET by Austinwills
Edited 11/19/2006 4:55 pm ET by Austinwills
I would go to the paint store and just ask for drywall primer. They should know what to sell you. If you look at the label, it will probably say PVA, polyvinyl acrylic or vinyl acrylic.
Why does it say on the bucket that I need to prime before texturing.
My understanding after I am done taping and finishing off all the joints I should then splatter texture the wall and then apply the prime coat and then the 1 or 2 coats of paint. It doesn't make sense to prime then splatter texture then apply the 1 or 2 coats of paint. I must be reading that wrong?? There definition of texturing must mean something else. Thanks
I don't know. I've haven't done a texture finish. They may be concerned about the texture layer adhering to a chalky surface. It certainly can't hurt.
Hi- If you don't prime before texturing, the texture coat will dry/shrink unevenly on the mudded vs. paper/raw areas of the gypboard. This will telegraph through to the finish coat of paint and you'll be able to see the lines/margins where the mudding meets the paper surface.
So does this mean that I have to prime with the pva primer twice. I think it is probably necessary to prime after I splatter texture cause the splatter texture droplets need to be primed.
Jee it is a good thing I asked. I was almost sure that I was reading that wrong.
Edited 11/20/2006 1:41 pm ET by Austinwills
Edited 11/20/2006 1:42 pm ET by Austinwills
Many times you will want to prime TWICE with PVA to get the best finish look possible. The first coat gets sucked into the drywall paper and the spackle/compound at different rates and it will telegraph right through your finish paint.
So does this mean that I have to prime with the pva primer twice. I think it is probably necessary to prime after I splatter texture cause the splatter texture droplets need to be primed. Yes.
-Ken Hill
You gyes are the best.
Thanks for the help.
P.S. Stilts? I think I might just give them a try know too.
I thought that PVA meant "polyvinyl acetate". At any rate, if I were at a store that hadn't heard of it, I would tend to want to go elsewhwere.
I thought that PVA meant "polyvinyl acetate".
I think you're right. I had it wrong in my previous post. I've been using a primer for drywall (Muralo 563) that lists the binder as "vinyl acrylic" which is why I got it wrong. BTW, this particular primer has worked extremely well for me and the price is quite reasonable. I guess I may as well continue using it even though it's not "PVA".
I heard that one advantage of PVA is that it doesn't "wet" the paper fibers and cause them to stand up like whiskers.
Edited 11/21/2006 7:18 am ET by Danno
<<How is it possible though to make sure you get 1/32"under the tape? >>By squeezing out whats under the tape on your last pull.
BTW...not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but when you do long seams, be sure to start in the middle going in each direction...its just easier and doesn't mess with the tape getting bunched as easily... but you probably already knew that : )
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
How is it possible though to make sure you get 1/32"under the tape?
Personally, it works best to apply an even 1/8" to 1/4" under the tape and when embeding it lay the knife quite flat to the surface. Embedding the tape at a higher angle squeezes out more mud and creates more pops.
Then use enough force to embed the tape and remove the excess without squeegying it like you are cleaning glass.
We're in a dry climate so as soon as the mud hits the wall it starts to get the water sucked out quite quickly. If I slightly thin the mud it sticks a little better and avoids pops caused by mud that's too dry, but it's just a touch of extra water.
WOW...dude, nice site. Thanks for the link.
Drywall Boxers? WOW...nice tool!! I always thought they were underpants for drywall guys...lol.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
When embedding the paper tape, wetting the tape first helps big time. Measure out your strip of tape, then plunge it into a bucket of water. Take out the tape and pull it through two extended fingers, squeegeeing the water off of it.
The tape sticks better to your bedding mud (applied first) and the wet tape won't suck out the moisture from the mud.
Several years ago, I discovered that method of wetting the tape by sticking it in water and pulling it throught my fingers and it really helped. Like you say, it doesn't dry so guickly and suck the water from the mud. In MS the previous crew of amateurs tried to use tape (instead of fiberglas mesh) in one room. I had to pull some of the tape and re-bed it. Other strips I totally puulled off and then used mesh tape. Big PITA when you think you're goint to do second or third coat and then paint and you have to start over--slows you way down when you're only there for a week and trying to go go go so you can get owners in before Thanksgiving. One lady there insisted upon putting the mud on using her fingers! I kept telling her it was bad for her skin and it plain did not work, but I'm a prophet without honor and no one listened to me
and remember that paper tape has two different sides.
it is pre-creased for folding into the corners.
when using it on the flat, make sure the "ridge" goes against the wall.
an old timer showed me this years ago.
it's not even mentioned in fergusons book.