What do you think about the 4/3, or the 4-day-workweek with 3 days off? <!—-><!—-><!—->
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Apparently David Gerstel works his employees 38 hours, or 4 nine-and-a-half hour days. I’m not quite sure why he does so, but I can’t help but wonder if he doesn’t have to provide all of his employees with benefits that way. His stating that he pays his guys every two weeks increases my wonderment. Is this so?<!—-> <!—->
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I like the idea of having a 3-day-weekend, but here’s the problem: It seems to be a standard for residential work to start no earlier than 8 AM, as a courtesy to the neighbors. With a half-hour lunch, that ends the workday at 6:30 PM. I like to have been home, eaten, and showered by 6:30 PM. I have a life, and by 7 PM there’s other thing I want to be doing.<!—-><!—->
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I suppose a 4/3 with 9.5 hour days, would provide an extra half hour each day, at the expense of only two hours of weekly pay. Still, ending the day at 6 PM doesn’t do enough good if you have a ½ hour travel time to get home. It might work if it would be possible to start at 7:30 AM. Starting at 7:30 AM with 4-9 hour days, would end the day at a perfect 5 PM, but would only render 36 hours of weekly pay. I’m not sure if that paycheck would attract the best employees. Starting at 7 AM with a 4/3, and 9.5 hour days, would probably sound great to employees, but I’m not sure that would good for business with the noise and all.<!—-> <!—->
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What do you think about a 4-day-workweek?<!—-><!—->
–T
Replies
Not in remodeling. You'ld be there before the client left for work and you'ld be there when they got off.
Now, if they would feed you breakfast and you could have dinner waiting when they got home. . . .
SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
journey... and what will YOU do on the 3 days off?
probably paperwork , right ?
so.. you end up burning the candle at both ends
i think 4/10's will work with production / single trade but you have to have an office staff to support it
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, I am a cabinet maker. I am relocating my shop into a new building. I am tired of standing on concrete for 12hours some days. Its taking its toll on the old feet. I would like to maybe put sleepers down and then 3/4 ply. what is the best way to go about this. The building is 1250 sqft. Can I use 1x or 5/4 material for sleepers (I dont want to lose anymore ceiling height than I have to). vapor barrier? Steel sleepers?
Nice to meet you, Lou C
Sorry for posting here Mike, Couldn't find you anywhere else. You seem to know your stuff or you just take good pictures (Ha Ha)Lol
Edited 3/9/2007 5:55 am ET by loucarabasi
Edited 3/18/2007 6:17 am ET by loucarabasi
We recently changed to working 7 hours/day. "9.5"? I couldn't do it, at least not and stay productive. The guy I work with is 26 and strapping and I know he likes 7 hrs/day too. We go home with something left in the tank.
Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
James...I like your idea the best. Its the most realistic for us old timers...lol. I had it ...thinking back to the early years...30 something years ago doing six day weeks...10-12 hours a day...Been there/done that...ya gotta get a life sometime. I think back to all the jobs I've done over the years...whewwwwwww...started with aluminum siding...gulp.
The "ultimate" for me is doing exactly what I've been doing the past half a dozen years. My own crib,,,then selling for a nice chunk a change.
The "perfect thing" would be to have enough money to stay in one and work on the other or at least find one that has an entire area to live in while I work on the rest of it switching living accomodations around when I'm half done. Getting closer though...this house wasn't nearlyyyyy as bad as the one before.
Still looking around the country to do this but I ain't gonna be stupid about that...not gonna stick myself where the quality of life becomes more of a struggle just for a change of scenery. Still open to all ideas though and it IS getting down to the wire.
Been checking out areas of North Carolina but on one hand the areas we like are so cheap I doubt we could make any money doing what we do here and the expensive areas are kinda not my cup of tea but I'm sending Katrina down in a fortnight to look an area over with an agent I've been in touch with. Its kinda ify. Hey...at least I'm being realistic...lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFexyK8J1Iw
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
We could use you out here in the Great Northwet, brotherman. What say you and the missus come out and take a look around this summer? We got room.Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
Well...its still in my head. It is possible we could come take a look see. After all..it is closer to our older daughter in Northern Calif than NY is and with her having a baby this summer and all...
I'll have to check and see the listings and Google out by you,
Whats a good area to look in MLS at, for what I'm looking to do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFexyK8J1Iw
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You might look on the West side of Puget Sound, Andy. Lots of sleepy little towns around Port Townsend, and South of there. There's an interesting weather phenomenon out there - "a rain shadow". They get very little rainfall, but have the same lush vegetation as we do here in the greater Puget Sound area. I think the driest spot is a town called Sequim. Check it out.
Better hurry, though. They are just finishing up a big suspension bridge to the peninsula from Tacoma that will relieve the traffic congestion that keeps land values relatively low out there. I think they're going to see a serious real estate boom out there the next few years.
The farther South along the West side of the Sound you come, the higher the property values. You get down around Gig Harbor, you're talking Long Islandesque.
The East side of Puger Sound is pretty well full of people, from Olympia to...let's see...maybe Everett? Up around Bellingham is nice, but the climate is a little harsher.
Ask Tim Huler. He lives over on the Olympic Peninsula. He could probably tell you more than me. I'm a country guy - trees and sunsets, barns, sawmills, mountains, birds and swamp critters. Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
Thanks James...will do!! Another several hours this weekend I'm sure..lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFexyK8J1Iw
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Magnolia section of Seattle.
come to oregon, i have already broken in the natives wit dese dare dem and youse;)
yeh...the left coast IS inviting 4 sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFexyK8J1Iw
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Six a day is about all I can reasonable get out of myself anymore.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jim,When I was fresh out of school and newly married (about 4 years ago, a veritable eternity!) I worked a lot to get some cash flow for the family. I was working for the guy who is now my business partner. We primarily built porches, decks, and garages for a builder who was doing a slew of modular homes.Even in the heat of summer, we could both work 10 hours easily and could be reasonably productive up until about 13 or 14. Of course, the next day, you were beat when you woke up but once work started again it's no problem.I couldn't do that anymore. I was in the best shape of my life in school and my first year of marriage. Now the aches and pains have started (I'm really not looking forward to really getting old) and my endurance has dropped.I think the biggest obstacle to working 4/10's is the disruption in peoples lives if you're doing remodeling. Some of the people we work for are commuters who leave before we arrive and get home long after, but some stay at home with kids. I know it would not be optimal for the families who are home during the day. It's bad enough that they have to look at us from 7:30 to 4, let alone 7-5:30.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Nice to see you around again, Jon.Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
Even when young and healthy, I think my production fell off considerably after about 55 hours a week, and I see danger creeping in after 60hours due to lack of alertness
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
While three days off in a row is sweet, the other four days are complete toast with no hours left in them to do anything else, especially when you figure in commuting time.
And to reiterate Sam's thoughts; we do residential remodeling. We try to start at 7:30am and we often have clients bellyaching.
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WHICH content will be free, of course; WHICH content will require registration; but WHICH content will be available only to members of FineHomebuilding.com.???
I get home by 5 or 5:30. I'm tired but have enough energy to do stuff a couple of nights a week, around the house, out with friends, or side jobs. Thursday is our Friday, and Friday is free day."This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
When I worked for the forest service, we worked 4 tens a week, 3 day weekends. We actually worked longer than ten hours most days, and took the credit hours off later in the season.
I like ten hour days, but it won't work in most remodel jobs. I work 8 1/2 or 9 hour days now, and that's about the limit that I can do without stepping on homeowners toes.
As far as the work goes, I'd step back up to ten hours in a heartbeat. Right now, I rockclimb/workout before work for 2 hours, 3 days a week. I don't think an extra hour of work would be any more difficult.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
You're young yet. I'm jealous. Well I remember those days. Or framing all day then cutting firewood at night. Enjoy it, Zak, you'll miss it when it fades. Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
The company I work for does four 10-hour days. We do both remodeling and new homes. We usually work 6:30 to 4:30 without a lunch break. If clients request it we'll start at 7:00 and work until 5. After the fact that we pay pretty well for the area and get nice jobs, I'd say it's the biggest benefit to working here.
Of course I'm foreman so I have to be available on Fridays to meet subs or chat with the client, or catch up on stuff I didn't get to during the week, but all in all it's a great system. Three day weekends every week, take an extra day and you have a mini-vacation. Less setup and breakdown time. Once you get used to it (and the lack of lunch breaks) an 8-hour day feels like nothing.
I like the 5/4/9. Nine hour days with a five workdays one week and four workdays the next. 3-day weekend every other week.
It is called a 9/80 work schedule.
9 working days nets 80 hours every 2 week cycle.
that was my recommendation also
When I was at the forest circus, that was called a 5/4/9. 5 9 hour days, then 4 9 hour days. You get one 8 hour day in there sometime actually.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
same thing different terminology.
On Diego Garcia, I worked a 2-2-2 & 80 with a 1 in 3 superimposed on top.
Work 8 to 4 twice, then 8 off, followed by midnight to 8 twice, 8 off, 4 to midnight twice then 80 off.
Plus 1 24 hr watch every 3 days at the same job.SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
What did you do out there?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Installed the SatCom system and translated Britsh electron-speak to American. LOLSamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
Edited 3/10/2007 8:16 pm by SamT
funny to read this thread today ...
talking about milking extra production by working longer hours.
spent today holding a 12lbs demo hammer higher than my waist for half the day ... demo'd a bomb-proof tile shower ... ate a ton of dust thru the mask ... ton of dust into the eyes under the goggles ... etc.
beat the heck outta my shoulders/arms/chest ...
so when I was all done aside from clean the mess off the shower floor ... and saw it was 2:45 ... decided to follow a little tradition of mine ...
"If I'm getting dirty I'm going home early!"
so I did!
sometimes good, hard work calls for extra time off ... not more time getting dirty.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
The other side of that is sometimes I'd rather work eleven hours and get it finished so I don't have to look forward to the same crap again the next day. No wonder I'm tired - all those years when i worked average 10x6 day weeks...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We work 4 tens for our primay client and friday is spent on other projects. If we need extra production friday can be used, but mostly it's our chance for a change of pace or three day weekend.
As Gerstel's book points out, it's mainly a matter of getting used to a new schedule.
In the past I've worked for contractor that always worked 9 hour days and when we hit 40 we'd take off early on friday. Clients get used to seeing us and the interaction provides time to go over details. We also end up letting the dog out, relaying where mom or dad is, and passing on what's on the menu that night.
During the winter it's just too dark to work 10s unless it's inside so we work 9 or 8 depending on daylight.
The absolute best reason to work 10s is that we can do 50 hours and still have the entire weekend off.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Back in late 50's we worked 7-5:30 weedays and 7-noon Sat. Driving time to the job was on the clock. Driving home was on our time. Then after dinner mow the lawn with push type reel mower or hand dig garden with a fork. No wonder people have to go run or pump iron; they're not getting enough excercise.
Seriously though, 10 hr days yield better billable hrs because of less driving & clean up time.
My wife is in hospital ICU right now where nurses work 4x12hr then 2day down then 3x12hr. They say it is much more efficient with 1 less shift change per day.
While working for a sawmill a couple of years ago, I was on a 4-tens schedule. I asked my boss if he minded if I alternated mondays and fridays as my "off" day. It was OK with him, so.....
Every other weekend was 'normal' two days off. And the inbetween ones were four day weekends.
Sweet.
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
Thanks everyone, for your replies.-T
For remodeling a ten hour day does conflict with clients in house.When I worked condo building, the ten hour day was standard. It is more efficient when you consider each day setup time and pick up time is the same. breaktime is the same.So percentage of day's time actually spent working is higher.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We work 4/10's and if were behind we can work Fridays and still have a two day weekend.
I prefer this system. For me it'd be hard to go back to the 5/8's. Right now my workweek is over!
We start work at 7am and go until 5:30, plenty of time to do other things. Durring winter I go work out and in the summer time I can still get in a good 20 mile bicycle ride after work.
Maybe people get up earlier here cause we never seam to have a problem if were working on someones house.
Doug
I'm with you. I just got back from a couple hours playing darts and drinking beers with the guys I work with. Our work week is over. I have some stuff to do tomorrow but it's definately not a "regular" work day."This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
I have to go into the shop and put the hardware on a cabinet that the finish guy "forgot to spray" until to late in the day but then its off to breakfest with a friend.
Heres to the guys that have to work today!
Doug
Here's to us! I need to get the plumber to move his drain lines over and inch so they'll fit in the wall. Concrete slab is coming Tuesday. I love plumbers."This is a process, not an event."--Sphere