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…Per….does’t sound like much of a problem….if you were around here, I’d certainly be interested..as a GC , I really like “shell only”, especially if I do a ” Design /Build”
I’d like to take it from site work to finished shell: excav. sitework, found, shell, trim, roofing windows /doors & siding.
also figure your masonry, permits, and penetrations, especially roof penetrations. These are the things that a good contractor is set up to do.
you can short circuit the process if you go Design / Build
additions tend to be low priority in boom times for Architects…check around, check the references and make your move….
a caveat…If rough figure only a third of the cost is in the shell
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As I drift into the third year of building my own house (living in it the last 18 months) I would give you this bit of advice. In the overbooked market of today, working through a contractor will give you an advantage on getting subs scheduled. I know this because I didn't have it! Think of it from their point of view: they do a good job for you, they get a check and a thank you; they do a good job for a gc, they get a check, a thank you, and a line on plenty more jobs. I have been waiting for 3 months now for an electrician to do a fairly small job. Its ugly out there.
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Oh Per, long time no see, and congrats on #6 -- we finally reached the classic family-of-four and will stay there unless any bassinets show up on our doorstep.
I can suggest a very simple method of avoiding future house congestion problems -- an ounce of prevention...
Hope the freshly-minted babe is treating you OK. We loved our first dearly from the start, and loved when he got his own room, too.
*Holy sschnit Swede!!You should have mentioned the pickeled herring at the get-go, eh?How many framers you think you're gonna need to get that shack bilt?JeffHave pickeled herring pluckers will travel.
*Andrew,Are you saying that the only reason we put up with you is because you didn't pull out?See how these east coast guys are? They order the Porsche and as soon as the new garage space is up, they pass you by in the deli aisle as if you never existed.I bet that boy has some big lungs, eh Andrew?Yer Bud,Jeff
*Holy viking hats!So much advice, so little herring to go around!Thanks to all for comments. And just to assure Rik that I have some sense of proportion:1) My grandparents raised 12 kids in a 3.5 bedroom house with one bathroom, and not one of my relatives turned out to be homicidial, and 2) In my previous life, I spent enough time in NYC apartments (smaller than Andrew's addition) to appreciate every square inch of my house.Although I'd love to keep the house as is, there are a couple of things that point to more space:-wife works from home (needs room to herself)-3 boys need space the size of Rhode Island so as not to cause bodily injury to themselves/others-my tools are starting to climb up the garage stairs in search of new shelving-dad needs hideout to maintain sanity.On a more serious note, I fully appreciate what I'm getting us into. In case I was a bit unclear, I'm not trying to be the GC on the addition. I want to hire a competent builder with all the right credentials. I want him to build the shell, coordinate the roofing, rough electrical, HVAC, and possibly the siding. Then I'll take over...and yes, I know it will take time & patience & lots of flowers for the wife.But how do I specify/document/contract where I want him to stop. With a "finished" product, it's relatively easy. You get the COO, move in, & call if there are any problems. Beyond specifying what materials to use, how do I define when his work is "done"? I'm also not sure how easy it's going to be to get the right crew interested, given the housing boom going on here. Food for thought (meatballs!).
*Per, The only problem I could see in engaging a contractor is in the case of you breaking up a work schedule for you to jump in and do one of "your" jobs.In this case, if you give away the shell, some utilities and mechanicals, it's a fairly steady timeline for the builder. I can't see any reason why a typical builder wouldn't want to take on your job. Now, if you decide, for example, to step in and do the roofing, and you stretch a 5-day roofing job out over three or four weeks, you've just shot down the builder's timeline for the remainder of the job. All other subs are held up while you're slowly pounding nails.You've been on this forum for a while, and your family sounds qualified, I'm sure you're capable. However, if you do jump into the timeline by doing some work yourself, you're asking the builder to take some risk by allowing you to potentially bring his subs to a halt. That may scare a few guys off, or cause them to either bump up the bid or stetch out the tentative timeline a bit to factor in your possible delays. In any regard, it may cost you money. The best bet for an "involved homeowner" is to let the builder do his work, clear out, then you take over. It's a clean break that reduces liability for everyone.As to defining work for the builder, you need to have an idea of what each job entails, and how it affects following tasks in order to separate and define these various jobs. Do the framers place drywall nailers, or will the drywallers (you) do that. Will the framers place blocking for handrails, cabinetry, fixtures, etc, or will your family do that? Simplified examples...A good builder will recognize what you're trying to do and respect that. He should try to help you a bit in defining all these jobs and hammering out responsibility for the completion of each task. As you wrote, you're hiring a contractor, not trying to be one yourself. He should have a typical job description/timeline he could even let you have, to help you plan tasks and set goals. You can solve a lot of these "who does it" mysteries when you sit down at the table with prospective builders. Clarify in your head what you want to do. Then decide, can you do it? By doing it, are you tampering with the contractors timeline? If so, have a backup plan. A good contractor will work with you to give you what you want. If he can't, or if he won't, he'll either submit a high bid to cover possible aggravations, or he'll pass on the herring and step away from the table.Best of luck!
*How about this: the contractor guarantees he'll get you through the rough framing inspection, you guarantee you stay out of his way? Then clarify what "rough framing" means to him, as mongo illustrates by mentioning blocking, nailers, and other crud that you'll probably be content to do yourself.Oh yeah, get the roof, too. I miss mine.
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The day of reckoning is near!
With 6 (!) of us now, the days of the crib at the end of our bed are quickly running out. The new bedroom/s must be added soon, probably within the year. Problem is, construction costs & backlogs in our area have become horrific.
So here is what I'd like to do. Question is, is it practical, and if so, how to go about doing it.
1) We'll hire an architect to draw up what we want done (due to zoning/legal/property layout constraints, a simple add-on is not possible)
2) Hire a contractor to do the framing, roof, sheating, & windows (basically enclose the interior space).
3) Hire a plumber & HVAC specialist to do the rough-in.
4) Fly my father & uncle over (Dad is an electrician, Uncle is a "master carpenter", both from Sweden)
5) Spend the next couple of months insulating, wiring, rocking, & trimming the interior.
Some more details:
-Blown in cells for most ceiling (catherdral) insulation.
-Not sure yet about wall insulation.
-Northeast location (1hr. north of NYC)
-I have the experience & equipment to do just about everything except the roof work (we'll need new rooflines).
My main question is: How do I approach a reputable builder to build the exterior shell, but now finish up the interior? I am not trying to be cheap about this, but I just cannot afford to pay $150+/sf. Another concern is the backlog. Anyone with a decent reputation around here is backed up for at least 6 months, and the "hackers" are slapping stuff up that I couldn't sell to Saddam w/ a good conscience. I also understand that the person I'm asking to do the exterior may be concerned about his reputation (since he won't be finishing off the interior) if he's associated with a project that he didn't have full control over.
I have the time, tools, skills, experience, & manpower to finish off the job once the house is weather-tight. I'm just not sure how to get the "right guys" to get us to that point, without spooking them.
Sorry for the ramble, but I've been mulling this over for awhile. Trying to do this right, without anyone getting/feeling scr**ed.
And in case anyone remembers, I finally cut that gigantic old water tank out of my basement wall...and yes, the house is still standing.
*Maybe your father and uncle know a framer who would make the trip from Sweden as well?I'm sure your architect wouldn't mind.Just a thought,Jeff
*Per! Glad to see you're still standing! There may be some solution to your situation.Get plans and approvals.Shop the better builders, telling them: Shell Only.Make their lives easier by having all the little details worked out. Doors and windows that match the RO's indicated on the plans, the correct materials on hand and in the right amount, subs scheduled if/where needed so work flows without delay.Now, can you build this in XX weeks? Up, closed-in and gone? Your selling point is this job is more like a Garage construction... almost no chance for a call-back/tie-up. Might prove to be a good fill-in for their frame crew.
*Actually, there is no framer in the family...although I have a painter, mason, lumberjack (believe it or not), roofer, another carpenter, electrician, lawyer,....you get the idea. My dad & uncle are available because they will be retiring within 2 months of each other, & are convinced they'll need a break from their better halves. I was thinking of getting a Swedish architect as well, but I'm told they want to put birch veneer & meatballs everywhere. Herring too!
*Per,What you are doing is common, acting as your own contractor. Yes it can be done, if you can do it is up to you. remember being a contractor is a full time job. You better plan to take some time off of work while the work is being done. What you will save on the contractor is about 7 to 10%. You are having the shell done and that is a good bit of the job. Dont forget to count the cost of flying in and keeping your relatives. And of dealing with your wife while you live on a construction site. You might get the house down to 100 per square foot. As a side note, my wife was the youngest of six. Five girls and one boy. They were raised in a 950 sq ft house with one bath. None went to jail or got pregnant out of wedlock. To raise a kid you need a home not a house. look at your situation like this, What do you NEED and what do you WANT.Good luckRick Tuk
*Hope you get along well with dad and unc, otherwise figure in your lawyer costs and the cost of hiring a contractor to finish up the work while you await the murder trial.Hope all goes well, anyway. My only addition to what's been said is that if you can, start quick, since schedules usually get even tighter around here when the home improvement season sets in.
*...Per....does't sound like much of a problem....if you were around here, I'd certainly be interested..as a GC , I really like "shell only", especially if I do a " Design /Build"I'd like to take it from site work to finished shell: excav. sitework, found, shell, trim, roofing windows /doors & siding.also figure your masonry, permits, and penetrations, especially roof penetrations. These are the things that a good contractor is set up to do.you can short circuit the process if you go Design / Buildadditions tend to be low priority in boom times for Architects...check around, check the references and make your move....a caveat...If rough figure only a third of the cost is in the shell
*I'd look for a small crew of smart carpenters to do the shell fast as a no-hassle "shell-only" job the others recommend. The simpler the design, the faster. It shouldn't be all that hard. But do figure in the stress of a project that will then stretch on for-ev-er until completion. I can handle that, my wife -almost- can ... but some people get a nervous breakdown over saw/plasterdust that just take months to go away. I can't swallow $150+/sf either.Adding 450 sf to our house now ... i can feel your (future) pain... Don't assume you can't do windows and stuff yourself (not technically rough carpentry, right?) -- just put up an airtight barrier between the living quarters and the addition (e.g., a good door).It will be a while until that crib leaves your room, babies don't like dust ... maybe you can convince one of your older kids that camping out in an unheated shell is "fun."
*Per,I have a different idea for you. We do the old time "barn raising" around here. I have painted, sided, trimmed, hardwood floored, or framed whole houses in a day with a group of pros. It is awesome to see 12 real carpenters with guns and saws pop up the frame in a day, or walk away from a sided house that had none that morning. You have to provide lots of food and beer(good stuff) and you will need to reciprocate when they call you, but it sure is satisfying and much fun.Habitat For Carps,KK
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In your area u should be able to find a contractor that will do just what u need as i do when i to bussy to do the hole house.Thare are many out there who only do that part of the job but u would need to be the G.C.on the job.I would just make sure all ins in writing and agreed to first is all.
good luck,
ted