Morning All! Many of you may remember me posting about my roof, and my considering filing my first insurance claim. I have Allstate and after the agent visited my home I was convinced to file a claim. This was after three different roofers came out and concluded I had damage related to wind and hail. Last Monday an adjuster came out and I had a representative of one of the roof companies present. In the end the Allstate adjuster stated he couldn’t print me an estimate as his printer’s ink cartridge was out but would send it to me in the mail, and upon asking for details stated in front of me, the roofer, and my wife, that “Allstate was buying me a new roof.” Yesterday’s mail delivery came with letter from the adjuster stating a post-visit acknowledgment, but contained no estimate whatsoever. A second letter contained a check, but didn’t say anything as to what the check was for–just that it was a disbursement on the claim. Haven never filed a claim before, I am not sure if this is the only disbursement, or the initial disbursement. No way this is to cover the entire roof. I called Allstate and followed the telephone tree of options and garnered “a payment has already been made on this claim.” I was then directed to call another 800 number. The second 800 number got me to the exact same place, but I think this was just a weekend thing. The letter from the Allstate adjuster had yet a third number and I got that adjuster’s voice mail. I left a message asking for callback for better understanding of what I am looking at. Now, from what the roofer’s representative said, if Allstate is buying me, or anyone, a new roof that Allstate will make an initial disbursement (which I turn over to the chosen roofer), the roofing job is done, and the final balance is negotiated between the roofer and the Allstate adjuster. Does all this seem reasonable? Anyone know what Allstate’s policy is on what percentage of the estimate they remit in the initial disbursement? Without the promised estimate, I have no idea what percentage this check is suppose to be [initially] representing.
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Nuke,
I can be of no help in giving information on Allstate's policies but I would certainly not cash / deposit the check until you make contact with them and get it sorted out.
Depositing the check could very well "finish" the claim with the insurance company.
Agreed. No intention on doing anything with it--not even acknowledging it exists. :)
Depositing the check could very well "finish" the claim with the insurance company.
One of my bro's got scroowed on a claim in just such a manner. Claims agjustor sent a check for much less than agreed amount. In phone call, adjustor said "oh just deposit it and I'll send a second check for balance even though that first check says "FINAL PAYMENT".
Yeah OKAY. Scroowed out of balance amount. Adjustor said, "you deposited the FINAL PAYMENT check , accepting that negotiated amount. Claim is closed".
So do NOT cash that check. It is an old ploy to pay less on claims.
Hmm, let me go take a closer look at that check--the one that I never received. :)
I'd go talk to the agent who
I'd go talk to the agent who sold you the policy. They should know how to cut through the BS and get you an answer.
Well, I can go see my current agent, but I cannot see the original agent as he retired several years ago. This is a nine year old policy.
Nuke, you might want to post this discussion in an alternate forum if you want further information. I'll add my comments here but I've not had any luck finding a thread that I've posted in, so if you have followup questions specifically aimed at me, I doubt that I'll get them.
Anyways....I would not stop pressing for the full report and a detailed explanation of how that check was figured. I'd also not cash it as others have said.
Typically there are two checks issued...but I've seen the entire amount paid out in one check....so err on the side of caution. The first check is the total ?Replcement Cost Value?, less your "deductible", and less the "Depreciation"
An example might look like this: RCV is 10k. Deductible is 1.5K. Depreciation is 2.5K. Your check would be: 7k. IF you pay 10k to get the work done, you can normally "recover" your depreciation if you send in an invoice proving that the work was done. They will then send the check for 2.5k.
I've just described what typically happens if the depreciation is "recoverable". Not all depreciation is recoverable and thats why it's important to see the report and to understand how/why they arrived at their figures. You should be able to call your agent or the adjuster or the claim center and quickly get all that information sent to you.
Please understand that they all have their own methods of dealing with all of this. So far, I've only run into one customer that had "non recoverable depreciation". You might be that one in a hundred.
If you have questions, email me at roundrockroofing dot gmail dot com. Or, post them in the renegade sites.
Until you mentioned the word depreciation, the wife and I considered the roof as a component of the whole home, and applied the 'replacement cost' aspect of our policy therein.
Of course, we just opened up the reading material that the Allstate adjuster left, but I have to presume this is material based on the process, assumptions, etc. for how they write homeowner policies today--which is different than our policy.
If there is a component of depreciation that is going into this claim then isn't a case of "Allstate buying you a new roof" as the adjuster stated. Considering that he never showed us an estimate then I am not sure what to think.
Tomorrow will be a day of days, I suppose when I start asking questions. These days just to get a required homeowner policy you need a lawyer specializing in insurance to cover your interests.
I'm amazed. I found this
I'm amazed. I found this thread again.
They all use the depreciation as part of their process. Some just include the payment for it on their first check.
One huge reason that they withhold the "recoverable depreciation" is because it doesn't get paid out if you don't replace the roof. I just ran into another lady on Thurs that didn't replace her roof from a storm two years ago. She spent that money on an HVAC system and never did the roof. That meant that the insurance company didn't have to pay out that recoverable depreciation check. Furthermore, it helps them out in another area: they don't have to honor any future claims on the roof of any damage that occurs through that roof.
In this case, the lady got hit by a second hailstorm and they simply denied the claim based on the fine print of the contract. She neglected to fulfill her end of the maintenance section of the policy. Essentially, she was wasting a portion of her premium money by paying for servicees that weren't going to be provided.
I can understand this and fully understand the reasons to not payout a complete estimated amount. Perfectly logical and perfectly reasonable. But without knowing what the check represents makes it a complete mystery.
Until I can get a better idea, and especially a hard copy of the estimate that mystery will remain.
Nuke,
I read the replies to your initial post and offer the following given the notion that I reponded to an earlier post regarding this topic.
Not long ago, about 4 weeks, my roof was replaced by this same company based on the adjuster's inspection. Without a long explanation, based on his climbers evaluation.
Did your inspector take photos? If yes, what was the date and what were his/her qualifications? I had a ;ad look at the roof a few months earlier than the date I filed my claim and...........I think he started the day before.
Photographs that clearly show shingle degradation due to the event (missing gravel) speak volumes. I hope this response helps.
FWIW, this new format sucks!!
Best Regards,
N. Wilhelm
I am going to assume he took pictures of the roof, but for aging and for damage. Did they draw out a grid pattern and mark damage to attempt to build a case on limiting the extent? No. The adjuster and his son had a point & shoot camera. I witnessed the adjuster taking pictures of the gutters, down drains, etc. while he was in my view.
He also took pictures of interior water damage in two bedrooms, but chose not to go into the attic. While there was acknowledgment of mechanical damage I can only wonder how this plays against the weather damage, which they apparently had no problem documenting to fruition?
I am expecting the adjuster to not respond to my voice mail I left on Saturday. Not that he doesn't care to respond, but just that the Allstate adjusters are extremely busy in the Atlanta market. The weather is not cooperating. :)
So, I sent an email to my current agent asking about the process, especially in the light of receiving a canned letter from the adjuster and no estimate in hand.
You need to talk to your agent. Find out if you have ACV(Actual cash value), or RC(Replacement Cost). ACV you can actually lose some depreciation, RC, they "buy you a new roof". The problem with Allstate, StateFarm, etc. is the agent is the Co. They have been the worst at paying. With an Independent agent they go to bat for you.
If you aren't happy with settlement, keep after them. Eventually they will pay.
Good Luck,
Dannic
Many companies now have special policy provisions specifically related to roof coverage that are distinct from the overall policy. You can actually have a policy that covers replacement cost for everything EXCEPT the roof. Many firms switched to this language so you just have to pull the policy and read it.
I think that is exactly what I am going to have to do. I did visit my current Allstate agent yesterday, but this was regarding the lack of estimate in my hands. While I left a company voice mail for the adjuster on Saturday, I also learned of his cell phone number and called and left a voice message there, too.
I have not yet gotten a callback. This is what I stated to my agent, who said he'd try to engage the adjuster as well. I have no clue as to how many squares are to be pulled off and installed per the estimate. I even left my email address in the voice messages.
And this from what I am told is a senior claims adjuster. Hmm. And on a similar note, a friend in another subdivision is going through the same thing. He's a corp treasurer by profession and a good chap all around.
My friend sent me his State Farm adjustment estimate (seven pages long) and it shows a detail of what they are willing to replace, at what cost, deductible (same as mine), depreciation, etc.
His house is about 3/4 of mine in total SqFt and footprint, built a year after mine with the same 3-tab 20-25 year shingles, etc., and got the dang near exact same initial disbursement. He was told his initial disbursement was 75% of the estimate minus deductible and depreciation.
As a first time claim filer, my interpretive experience with Allstate ain't coming up roses. :) Why I cannot just go online, log into Allstate and see my claim adjustment estimate online is crazy in this Informational Age.
Lunch on Tuesday, no written adjustment. I have been calling two numbers for the adjuster, both go directly to voicemail. Agent has been trying to reach the adjuster on my behalf, still no success.
Allstate really is making this easy to stay confused, ignorant, and not much else. How long does it usually take folks to get the estimate after the adjuster visit? Its on the ninth day.
Agent has been speaking with Claims Manager. While claims can email the document, he is instead printing it out and faxing to the agent. Then the agent is going to scan it and email to me.
Allstate needs to buy the caveman concept from Geico. This stone and chisel routine is totally prehistoric. Between this homeowners claim (first claim for home/auto), and the victim claim experience against that other Allstate customer t-binging me, my experiences with Allstate are a D heading toward an F.
After five (5) of waiting for the Claims office to do what they told my agent they would do, nothing. I guess it isn't just customers that are getting screwed by the claims office. :)
You might consider calling your state's insurance regulator and see what they are required to do. Once you can leave a message with the adjuster telling them what they haven't done and are supposed to have done, you'll likely get better service.
Nuke,
I have been following this thread with some interest. Having more than a little experience with CAT adjusters I can only state that sometimes you get good ones and other times, well........bums. Sounds like you got a bum.
While Mr. Oxendine's office might do you some good it will probably not occur until sometime after next year is long gone. I would recommend that, with the knowledge of your agent, you start climbing the ladder of corporate responsibility. Determine, if possible, the regional claims manager for your area and contect him relentlessly.......the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
If you do not have an estimate for repair then you have no offer from the carrier for settlement of your claim. If you have not done so already, from this point forward keep meticulous handwritten records of who, when, where, why, and how you spoke (date, time, name, number) with each successive individual representative. As the insured you have a right under most policy's to obtain a copy of the claim denial and the reason supporting same.
From everything I've read so far someone has dropped the ball. Should you have the aforementioned conversation records you might pass a copy along to your agent and mention that your roof is leaking, again. If the carrier has not settled nor offered to settle an existing claim for the roof then, IMHO, they are liable for future damages as well. I'm not sure where you live in GA but the 'mold' word usually gets most peoples attention.........especially in the insurance industry.
I wish I could be of more assistance.
The number you should be calling is 800-54-STORM for the CAT Team. The paperwork should have been mailed to you with the initial check, but most likely a separate mailing - may just be lost in the mail. But the Cat Team should be able to get you a duplicate.
I'm confidant that the initial check is for the depreciated roof, then, as I said earlier, you'll get a check for the balance of the cost, less the deductible, when the new roof is on. Recoverable Depreciation is what they call it.
If your Agent can't help you, call me with the Claim Number. 229-435-9711. I've developed a pretty good network within the Company, after 24 years of this.
Maybe the paperwork will show up in today's mail.
Greg
Greg, thank you for the offer to assist. My agent is helping me, but its the back end of Allstate that seems to have serious problems.
After ten days of waiting, trying, etc., I got emailed from my agent a one page summary of only a portion of the items I expected to see listed. And this was faxed to him by claims team. When I spoke to claims this morning, they could not send me anything (email, mail, carrier pigeon).
Two interior spaces were damaged, acknowledged and agreed for documentation as items in the adjustment. This was not represented on the one page summary. Same for the gutters, where the adjuster took pictures of the damage. No summary representation.
Agent engaged claims on my behalf. They have opened a supplemental claim for the missing items (great, yet another adjuster appointment scenario/fiasco), and claims has opened an internal ticket to investigate why the original claims were missing the above items. Also, still no communication with the original adjuster. MIA.
Agent called claims and got an internal ticket open. That was the trick. Apparently a) original Adjuster Summary was MIA in mail, and b) an internal ticket was needed to kick the adjuster into responding.
The fax of the Adjuster Summary was incomplete just as I presumed. Adjuster is going to email the full summary shortly. I thanked my agent for his assistance.
This is rather long, and some of it might curl your hair, so you may need to email/print this to read when you have some time.... Hope it helps.
With the house, Trudy's 16'x32' garden shed, a smaller metal storage barn, and my workshop, the asphalt shingles were completed in October and metal roofing and gutters were done by the commercial division of the company. Running behind by six weeks, the commercial crew finished the metal roofs in early January. If there are no current leaks, wait to have your asphalt shingles replaced until it gets warm. Plus consider upgrading from a 3-tab to a 30yr arch. shingle; the cost may only be $15 a square more for such a better roof.
To give you a scale of our damage, State Farm sent us checks for a grandtotal of just over $44,000. It took every penny, and then some more out of my pocket, but even with the economy's downturn, today I couldn't get the same thing done for the price we paid.....
I'll try to divide this, so when the different Insurance and Roofing phases happen, it will help when you get through them and knowing what to look and ask for.... Hang on, SOME roofing people are not always 100% honest...even if they say they teach Sunday School........
Things to Consider When Dealing with the Adjuster or asking for another to come back to see other things the first adjuster missed or wouldn't write into the damage report and check....
Because we were building the garden shed at the time of the hail, a lot of materials and things were tarped and being stored outside. I learned a lot while listing damage. State Farm adjusters were so overloaded with referrals, I had to call them back three times for things that were overlooked when each one came and went, but it made a big difference on my bottom line of dollars recieved.
A few days before the adjuster arrived, I took a notepad with me as I walked and looked at everything damaged, then wrote it down. I made a drawing with zones of the lot, so the things could easily be located if the adjuster came back. Then, before the adjuster came, I went back over that list on another day only to find many other things I'd missed. To help deal the usual insurance deductible, and the 1% of this company policy's coverage for a hail and wind deductible, reporting the following things can mean getting reimbursed for "little things" that add up and can pay for your deductibles!! Things like:
Damage of solar landscape lights and glass or thin metal yard art, the rain gauge, broken flower pots and the pelted plants in them, bird feeders, the seat and hood of our riding mower, and the damaged plastic cover to the propane grill if not the grill itself.
Remember to check the damages to the wooden fence facing the storm and end tops of individual fence boards along the fence that the large hail split and splintered. On wooden fencing there is an amount you'll never get back, but that is the only thing other than your deductible amount. There's an adjustment to have the fins on the outside air conditioner unit straightened (Combed) were noted, as well as any paint-damaged or dented gable vents or roof turbines.
In addition to the hail cracked/broken window panes, any visual or physical damage to window trim and skid marks on the window screens needs to be written down and repair/replacement covered. Chimney caps, weather vanes, outside light fixtures, metal dings to garage doors, and even if you are on cable or small dish TV service, don't forget the old TV antenna. If you took pictures of some damage that has already been cleaned up, like pressure washing where leaves and debris were stuck to surfaces, the adjuster will take those and pay for it to be cleaned or for your work cleaning them.
When your check arrives, go over the paperwork with a fine-toothed comb that's included with the Insurance Check. Just because you tell and show the adjuster the damage, you'll find that by the time he takes damage pictures and later does the write-up, several things will get left out. If you are lucky, you can call him back. But like ours, if he is on a team from out of state, then a different adjuster with a new face and no background of your claim comes back for those missed items to be addressed. I had some round, spiral metal ducting for my dust collection system in the work shop. It was stacked outside and looked like a ball peen hammer hit it. Having that duct company's name and number ready, I got it replaced, including the freight costs to get it here.
Remember to ask for replacement that includes all the labor/materials for repainting damage to the Fascia at least to the house's corner where it turns or the whole linear footage so it matches. Remember to include the extra cost if you have upgraded metal drip edge that is painted rather than the normal galvanized kind. The Insurance Adjuster usually pays for #15 tar paper (roofing felt), but check to see what you have. If it's #30 felt, then that's twice the cost of #15 felt, and don't forget to add in any Ice and Water shield you have under the tar paper. All these need to be added in to his figures.
Roof and Shingle Considerations:
We had 30yr Architectual Shingles over #30 tar paper. The house's ELK shingles were 14 years old; the garden shed had 30yr. Owens/Corning shingles were just 90 days old. With oil prices high at the time after the hail, and shortages of shingles over nine states, it made me think what will it cost next time a new roof is put on? What if you can't get shingles or if the economy forces the insurances to do Half-Hearted payments like you've already experienced, or they go to "spot repairs" instead of full roofs???? Nowadays, if the economy doesn't tank itself, the possibility of oil going back to $100 a barrel, and another short supply of shingles when the next wide spread hail hits, future reroofing has got to cost more. So, I decided to put the best roof on I could get for the money....unlike several of my neighbors who "low bucked" a new roof and KEPT THE MONEY.
A metal replacement roof was considered, but in addition to high costs that were between $500 and $800 a square, the insurance companies will want you to sign a wavier to your policy after it is installed. Yes, they will give you a Homeowner's discount for a metal roof, but the wavier is for "Cosmetic Appearance". If hail hits, they won't replace a metal roof on the house if it's not leaking, just because it's dented up..... (Grapefruit size hail they had in Strawn, Texas, would probably override that wavier.) I found a hail resistant shingle that qualifies for Homeowner's discounts like a metal roof, but if it hails really, really bad to actually damage it, it would be considered replaceable. It is made by GAF/ELK and called "Armor Shield II". Our homeowner's insurance policy renews in the month of April. With those shingles, and the normal 10% increase in property coverage each year, our new policy was $503.00 lower!!! Plus, State Farm went back to October, when the new shingles were installed , and gave us over $100 back for the months between October and April!! That new $503 savings is every year the Armor Shield II shingles stay on, too.
When the roofing bid was written, Armor Shield II cost $201.00 a square, installed with #30 felt and with a painted metal dripedge. To prevent leaks from ice dams or other areas, there's a new product called "Ice and Water Shield" is about 3' wide and very sticky on one side. All places where vents, chimney, valleys, and transitions between roofs, like to the lower pitch/angled patio roof, this material is put down on the bare wood decking first, the valley metal, tar paper, and shingles added on top. Check to see if you have, get paid for it, or want to add it to the new roof.
Roofing Companies
At the time I was getting roofing company bids, I looked for a good price, good referrals if I needed to see their work, asked if the company was bonded, and that workers were company insured so any injuries on their job didn't use my homeowner's insurance.
Some roofers will give you a total amount with only the brand of shingle, the cost for "tear-off" of the old shingles, and will want you to "just leave" the old dripedge "so it matches"..... Get a written bid that has all the materials itemized...If some conversation items are not written down, WRITE THEM IN with your and his intials or request a new contract printed with the changes. By taking a day or two off work, the day or two they roof, you can be there to check those material numbers against what is actually delivered and any bundles left over that are returned. Even the company I went with, I caught them over-bidding the shingles for two asphalt shingle roofs by 13 squares.... So, double check the number of shingle squares they say are needed as well as be there when they work to see they don't try to substitute #15 felt for the #30 you are paying for... Air nailers are usually used, but the crew will use any length of nail they have. Our old roof was put on when we were at work and only this year I found that in some sections of the roof, they used shorter than 1-1/4" long nails. Only because of ELK shingle's special high wind bonding did the South side's roof stayed down and dry.... If you can get into your attic while they are roofing, you should see new shiners coming through the old decking with the correct length shingle nails.
No matter what the roofing guy says....No matter how friendly he appears to be... No matter how he promises to come back to finish those little things.... DON'T PAY THEM UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE WORK COMPLETE AND YOU ARE HAPPY WITH IT!!! Do a walk over of the roofing job with the contract in hand and in good sunlight. Had one fence guy want to do a walk-over 20 minutes before dark...the next morning I saw why.... Remember, IT'S Money that's why they are there and THE only thing that will get them back if there is a problem. Any paper warranty is only as good as the honesty of the company or in a court of law....
Also, I found a roofing company that would take Master Card... Already having the insurance money in the bank, I could pay the contract amount and get the reward points.... ;>) PLUS, "IF" there is a problem with their work or not finishing the job, the credit card company could be called to dispute the charges, so I much more "power" that gets them to fix anything..... The points added up and I opted for one $500 Sears' gift card and with enough left over to be added to our old reward balance to get another $500 gift card and a third one for $120 gift card.... We've used one on a store wide "Friends and Family 20% Off sale" on most everything, including clearance items, which stretched those even more...:>)
If you are going to stay in your current home, and you want to get what the insurance company legally owes you, take the time and do what I did. The roofing company had to be called back 3 times as sloppy work on the ridge venting was corrected, missing Ice and Water shield put in, and put step flashing where the crew quietly skipped doing it and two running water leaks could be found when the roofing company rep. wet the areas with a garden hose...
Good luck with you insurance company and the roofing company you decide on,
Bill
Bill, thanks for the reply. It took an internal to the insurance company to do the adjuster's job at explaining the process, the adjuster estimate, and to provide the adjustment itself. Not sure if this adjuster will be with the CAT team much longer.
Anyway, with this knowledge in hand, my type of policy, etc., price no longer became an issue and the insurance company said as much.
I have since moved forward, screen about 8-9 different roofers, and in the end finally chose one. The last three roofers all had impeccable items being brought to the system. I about laughed when I called references as I made +30 calls and didn't get a single bad or even mediocre feedback.
Heck, some references I called and left a voice message called me back and had great things to say. This was across all three finalists. Yes, it is a roofer's competition, and I removed one company just because they were toob big and felt I'd get lost in their system.
All invited me to existing roofer project sites, past sites, had everything I required in terms of credentials, insurance (including workman's compensation, license, bonding), etc., etc., etc.
I am currently scheduled for next week.