How many other people here have gone to HD and asked for one thing and been told they dont really need what they want, what the really need to do the job is something else,
I went to HD to get some 1/2 in lags and washers, After asking where they were, I had never been to this particular store before, The sales clerk asked my why I wanted half in lags, I told the guy what I wanted them for and he said I didnt need lags I just need some nails, I was building a half wall about 7′ long and roughly 32″ high on one side with a drop down on the other, I wanted to use lags and go into the joists to make it as stiff as possible I realize this may have been over kill but isnt that my decesion and not a sales clerk?
Or maybe it wasnt overkill?
Just wondering if anyone else reguarly gets seconded guessed by the guys at HD?
Replies
Here's what you do. Practice this until you can say it with a straight face. "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you."
Now you didn't ask for advice on the application, but I have to say I agree with the HD guy about 1/2" lags being overkill. His solution may be inadequate, but based only on what you've told us, I think yours is excessive.
He was probably just trying to be helpful and save you some money.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
CAG,
Yes, you are probably going over board.
Yes, it's you're prerogative to go over board.
The first differenc between you and me is that I very rarely talk to the people at HD unless they are the cashier. I always seem to talk to the people who really don't know what's up (imagine that...) and it's a waste of time. Many here don't like HD. I like them fine- better hours than the yards, sometimes better selection, unbeatable return policy... I just don't expect helpful customer service.
I'm having trouble picturing the situation you described. For a stand alone knee wall, 5/16" lags would be fine for the conncetion between plate and floor. Anything more will be nullified by the other weak links. If this is the wrong interpretation, then maybe you're right in using 1/2" lags.
"Why do you need half-inch lags?"
"Well, I'm trimming out a window so I was in the nail aisle looking at trim nails. The orange apron in the nail section recommended that I use half-inch lags instead."
To answer all your questions, the wall stood about 32 or 34" high, dont remember anymore, it ran 7' long with no support on the far end, I guess my question about the overkill is null because I know I could have used smaller lags, but on the other hand I didnt feel comfortable using just screw to hold it down, the couple had a few young kids and I just pictured them ruff housing one day, running into the wall and breaking it loose so it wobbled. The lags were set into the floor joist between each set of studs, the wall was framed with 2x6. like I said I know I could have gotten away with less but if I ever have question, I would rather go with to much support then not enough.
Short walls with unsupported ends need all the help they can get.
Im with the mad dog on this one. Its even better if you can insert a post.
I see this situation all the time. Nailing the plate well should be good enough, but nailing the 2x6's tight to the plate is more important. If you can run the post down, like someone said, that oughta do it by itself. Also, the sheetrock on the stepdown side will help more that you might think. The problem we run into when we can't run the post down is keeping the wall level until the rock goes on.
RIck
the post would have been a good solution I hadnt thought of, but even after the lags, it wasnt 100 % secure at the end, I ended up using 1/2 in. ply to stiffen it up with 1/4 in. drywall over it, I was orginally going to just use the dw but again thought of a kid running into it or grabbing the edge, and drywall ain't structural so went with a little more overkill. But like I said above, would rather make something to strong then not strong enough
I use a steel pipe or tube. In commercial work I spec. a 2 1/2" steel tube with welded 3/8" top and bottom plate. The bottom plate connection depends on the floor construction (hilti for concrete (or core drill and grout), thru bolt for wood (or as a min. 4 lag screws if the underside is not accessible). The top steel plate is thru bolted. Use double fire treated wood top plates and metal stud infill. In my home I use 2 1/2" round pipe with pipe flanges. I get the pipe cut and threaded at the hardware store a little short and can adjust with the flanges. In a 2 x 4 wall I grind off part of the flange so that it fits in the wall. It works great and very stiff. In my house the cantilevered walls are only 3' - 4' long. For longer walls I space the tubes 4' O.C.. I just built a stair railing wall with the studs turned on there sides (1 1/2' thickness) and used 1 1/2" angle thru bolted to the stringer and lag screwed to the edge of the studs. It worked great and the wall is very stiff (no cracking of the corner bead) and no movement when I lean on the wall (240#).
I'm having a little trouble seeing what you built, but I'll give my opinion based on my misconception. Sounds like you built a half wall perpendicular to a full wall, and one end was unsupported. I would have used 1/4-5/16 lags to the floor and sheathed one side (or both) with 1/4" ply securly screwed to the studs, floor plate, and cap (possibly w/ liq nails) to provide a torsion box. Even better, if there was a way, turn a short (12") return on the loose end. I agree with your concern about the kids and large dogs.
CAG,
I like using the garage door braces to anchor a short wall along side a set of stairs this is the best over kill I could come up with.
ANDYSZ2
We try to frame the wall 1-1/2" or 3" short and cut a hole in the floor and run 1 or 2 2bys down to a joist or a block between the joists. This may be overkill but it stays tight for years.
Run your studs the full depth of the floor joists, with a bottom plate flush w/ the bottom of the joists (this is happening prior to subflooring, or you could cut an opening in the subfloor for it). Now go below and create a thru-bolted "sandwich" w/ a 2x on one side of the pony wall and another on the opposite side of the joist. Add some additional blocking to the joists on either side as well. You'll also need blocking at floor level for drywall nailers.
More work, but a lot stiffer result. The lever arm created by the height of the wall will pull loose almost any manner of attachment that just goes thru a bottom plate.
well I should have been smart enough to think about attaching the studs directly to the joist, but there was no access to the underneath, the house portion of the house this was occuring was on slab.
CAG, Back to your question about HD. YES!
I just let them talk, it goes in one ear out the other. Oh wait a minute thats my home not Home Depot :-)
Or be told by HD they don't have what you want, and you find it yourself.
We're doing major renos at work. To keep the trades working, I offered to go to HD to pick up six "grommets" to install on desktop, where the computer wires would run through. Also needed to get hole saw for installation of same.
Unfortunately, asked first staffer I saw where to find grommets, and completely explained the application where I needed them. (Desk, wires, finished look, big enough to get plugs through, etc) We went to plumbing, nope, not there. Took me to electrical, nope not there. Took me to eavestroughing, nope not there. Remember, I told the guy WHY i needed the grommets, which is what the contractor called them.
Finally I said, just take me to the hole saws, I'll call Radio Shack, try to figure out the size I need. HD guy says sorry, couldn't find the grommets for you, here's the hole saws, goodbye. I take out my cell phone, get ready to make call, turn around to the shelf where cupboard handles and hinges are, and what do i find???? All except they aren't called grommets. They're 'electrical conductive wire transfer conduit finishing covers' or some other such unwieldy name.
Was my mistake:
a) actually using a name (grommets) which apparently wasn't correct (hey, that's what the GC called it)
b) asking an orange-aproned "I work in every department" staffer for help. (I could have wasted 25 minutes on my own.)
c) going to HD (They're looking more like Crappy Tire every day)
You're giving away your location with that "crappy tire" comment.
HD is like all the other big boxes. Lots of people; not much knowledge. No matter what you call it, if you explain what the sucker is, they should be able to find it. THEY are the store employees, right?
your mistake was the same as mine, asking them, to be fair I have talked to a few employees of HD that actually were able to help me and were quite knowledgeable, but on the whole there not, and to be even more fair they probably make 7 or 8 an hour, you cant expect a whole lot of knowledge for that amount of money, if they had it they wouldn't be at HD, I don't dislike the sales people, and the store servers its purpose at times, I just wish they would have an add saying, "we will give you the best price, but you damn sure better know what you want and where we have it, cause we don't" I really feel sorry for the average guy who doesn't really know what he needs and goes there for advice.
You're right, I have run into some HD employees who were very helpful. In fact, I had started using them instead of Crappy Tire because they seemed more knowledgable.
But the 'grommet' problem happened at the new Oakville store, where I had been the week previous. Again, for work, needed to be able to attach a garden hose to a regular-type kitchen faucet (Moen). I spent more than half-an-hour with, as they called him, the "Master Plumber" (nearly choked on that, c'mon, if you're a master plumber, you're gonna be out working for considerably more than 8 bucks an hour). He showed me this fitting, and that fitting, none of them what I wanted.
Again, I just went through all the fittings hanging on the shelf, finally found the adapter to screw into the faucet, with the appropriate hose fitting on the end. Even though we had the garden hose in hand, the Moen faucet in front of us, I got the feeling he never really understood exactly what I wanted to do. What's so difficult about "I want to be able to attach the garden hose to the faucet"?
But, you're right. I'm not gonna go work there for $8 and take all that grief from customers who think they know more than I do.
just a quick tip, next time you need an adapter to go from a hose to a faucet go to a water bed store, not sure if you needed to fill a water bed, but they sell them for that purpose.
Hey it was for work ....... didn't need to fill a water bed. Knew about getting adapters there, but at the time, I knew where to find HD, but not a waterbed store.
Never had that problem at Home Depot. I've been beat to death at my local hardware store by well meaning clerks, who didn't have a clue. The guy that owns our local electrical supply house has made a career out of intimidating people who seem unsure of themselves. I've been buying supplies there for years, he's only tried to mess with me once. And I had to tell him off. But God help the man that comes in unsure of himself.
I have an electrician friend who worked part time at HD. He refused to work electrical because of all the losers coming in and offering him advice. Or the drunk guy leading his dumb founded buddy around the store loading him up with a fifty amp breaker and ten gauge wire to hook up his new welder in the garage, and getting beligerent when Jamie tried to tell him what he really needed.