FRAMER: “No problem dude… I’ll fix it for ya. One question though…. why the two rows of holes?”
GUY WORKING FOR THE MIA PLUMBER: “Uh… I misjudged. They’re the wrong size anyway”
FRAMER: “It happens. Oh yeah buddy…. one more thing….the reason that joist was in your way is cuz you put the toilet on the wrong side of the room.”
PLUMBER GUY: “But the plan says….. oh never mind”.
Thanks for tuning in to a little slice of my day. You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.
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Replies
Looks like fun there. Think I would be backcharging a plumber somewhere. I just dealt with the same type thing with an hvac guy. He comes to my other job and says" I need some hangers and header mat'l, got any" Alarms instantly went off in my head. When I got there he had hacked the snot out of things, in the wrong closet.
Maybe, though we shouldn't have to, we should start laying out where everythign goes for the subs too.
An inch to short. That's the story of my life !
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
Nice neat cuts! The plumber is good!
Not bad, huh?
Nice and straight. Quite good.
I've been cringing for a week, listening to the sounds of multiple super hole hawgs making chips. The mechanical guys are making my frameup look like swiss cheese.
Will you need to head off and double up on each side? What a mess.
I dunno... that's the problem with I-joist, I really don't feel comfortable being the one to prescribe a fix. If it's 2x10 it's not that big a deal because you know it's spanning 14' or less so the fix is almost always the same.... double up both sides and header it off. But I joists are just a different animal with so many depths and lengths available. These are 11 7/8" spanning 20'.
I'll give my lumber sales man a call tomorrow and see what he says. I imagine it will involve doubling and headering along with some hardware and web fillers though. But I still don't feel cool with being the one who calls it out.
The holes in the I-joists might fly - Depends on what the manufacturer's literature says. But I can't believe they'd hack off that much of an I-joist. Looks like a problem to me. Hacked up I-joists are certainly nothing new. If you call your supplier like you said they'll be able to come up with a repair. It might not be pretty, though...
Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds that you plant [Robert Louis Stevenson]
Yeah it's part of the job, no doubt. Just thought I'd share.
I would cut all that pipe outta there and put in a new I joist.... but will the GC pay for it?
Will the GC pay for it?
Does the GC want it fixed?
Tell ya what--if a sub gut-shot the I-joists that way on one of my jobs, I'd backcharge him for replacing every joist he drilled wrong. Not just the one he cut. Arsehole....
Oof. This is why I do 90% of my own mechanicals....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Mechanical subs do this all the time so I try to arrange a deal with them on start of layout and thru the installation.
The deal is I am the only one allowed to cut a hole in a joist or floor and I'll box in for them, build chases etc.
This may cost me a couple of days but it beats the hell out of getting mad, and I learn what they need to put a system together. Another aspect of this is I have the right tools and materials for the job verses the hacking and thrashing techniques.
I also can keep more of my framing intact while building custom chases for their work or offer alternative runs and it usually gives me an oppurtunity to show them why its framed that way and what will happen if they butcher up something.
This may seem excessive but I have made some long term friends with my subs by working right there with them.
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
While it's frustrating Andy, I'm really not angry. If I were the GC, it might bother me more, but as a framing sub it's just money in the bank. That does sound like an excellent policy though and I don't think it seems excessive at all.
Do you have a plumber hunting season there? Is there a bag limit?
that stuff looks extra anyway ...
U realize most houses are way over-built to begin with?
It'll be fine ... tell them to make sure they glue the drywall.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
ya just need a couple more hangers for that I-joist. Got a couple of sky-hooks yer not usin'?
ain't plumbers fun?
The best part Shep...... we were listening to them work while we were on our lunch break. You shoulda heard them. Trash-talking the frame, the electrician, their boss, the GC..... that was in between patting each other on the back for being such great plumbers with omnipent building knowledge. Pretty funny stuff.
did you call them on it?
No dude... I didn't say anything to them. Disappointed? I try to choose my battles as wisely as my squash lets me. Why bother.... they just don't get it.
not disapointed at all, at least a half dozen times a day I feel like loosing it but don't because it just doesnt seem worth it.
I swear they need to do more lab testing on PVC cement. That stuff opens portals to dimensions where only plumbers are right, and gravity doesn't exist.
Isn't it amazing?
I get woozy passing by someone working with that stuff, but plumbers work with it all day, and don't seem to be bothered by it.
I wonder how'd they do on a sobriety test after sniffing it all day.
I dont think i have ever seen a plumber or electrician snap a line.Just wait until they need u to cut them some blocks.
Ya know whats really funny? The guy that did that is probly on some plumbing message board telling a story, about how this framer on his job site told him that big chunk of wood he cut out was there for a reason! LOL
So c'mon Dieselpig---give us an update on how you fixed it!
Haven't touched it yet. When someone tells me what the right thing to do is... I'll do it. It may be as simple as just headering it off to the joists on either side, but still, it's not my job to figure it out and I'm not interested in the liability cuz I honestly am not 100% sure of what the right thing to do is.
With conventional lumber, I know when spans are maxed, I know the local codes for headered off members, and I can tell you what the appropriate 'fix' is. But TJI's are a whole different game.
Once had a carpenter frame a panel into an exterior wall ten feet down the wall from where I had marked the location. Job agreement was the electricians were to have all framing and blocking needed done by the carpenters. Cool by me.Problem was the HO bent the ear of the carpenter and said they had second thoughts about where the main panel would go. They decided they wanted it moved. Problem was that the service drop had to come in where we planned it. We couldn't move it down the wall.I come in and see the planned location not blocked for the panel. The carpenter says that he talked it over with the HO and, based on a previous jo, we could locate the meter where we planned but run the conduit to the main panel in the wall. I said it was OK by me and sent the helper out to the truck to get the hole saw kit and the angle drill. As the carpenter watched I chucked up the 2-2/2" hole saw and moved to drill the ten foot row of holes in his 2x4 framed wall. I started drilling, only went a fraction of an inch deep in the first stud when it dawned on him what I was doing. And more importantly exactly how much of his studs would be left after I drilled my holes.Roughly: 3-1/2" minus 2-1/2" divided in half leaves 1/2" of remaining meat on either side. We eventually came up with a plan that accommodated the new panel location but the HO had to agree to paying for an underground feed. A substantial change we had suggested when the plans were first being reviewed. An alternative would have been a fused disconnect at the meter, some 2" conduit along and down the wall and a condulet to get it into the panel. The later course being more an eyesore and something the HOs wished to avoid.He wasn't a bad carpenter and after this he always checked with the other trades before making changes. Just part of the learning process. As I think the plumbers on the cited job are going through. Back charges are expensive and painful. With enough pain even the densest folks eventually learn. If they don't go out of business first.
everything's fixable.
One of the reason for liking construction. As the guy said: 'If we can install it we can replace it.' Just time and money. Nothing important.
Nice pics Diesel!
This seems like the perfect place for this story:
This happened last week on a job we were finishing up. We were framing the basement partitions and I wandered upstairs to look for any items that we might have missed. I noticed that the plumbers had put in circulating tubs that were 20" high and my normal firestop blocks were too low. While I was up there changing them, I noticed that the plumber had knocked out the fire blocks in the span that his diverter went in.
Since I was already there with my guns and saws, I decided to just put them in and not bitch about it. Since they weren't done yet, I was able to put the block back in the same span and the plumber would have to drill it, or remove it again. Since I figured he would probably just knock it out again, I wrote in big black letters: DO NOT REMOVE. $75 RE-INSTALLATION FEES WILL BE BACKCHARGED IF I HAVE TO PUT THIS BLOCK IN AGAIN.
About an hour later, the plumber walked up to me holding the block and was wondering if it was important.
blue
Used to, years ago visit a plumbing board.
Those MASTER PLUMBERS do indeed think their s**t don't stink.
Master plumbers is all caps, italicized, and gold leaf too I expect.
Joe H
It kind of looks like "nacho"headed it out and proped up his drain in one shot.Now he just needs to rip something with his sawzall to fir it down for drywall. Cant see it from my house.
One word: Floor trusses. OK, that's two. Yopu guys ever use 'em? I like them for the ease of portability and engineering. I guess it's the same argument as roof trusses vs. hand framing.
At least your joists were the wider flange model! You say the lumber salesman will make the decision, does he have it engineered, or use his own calculations?
Around here, the lumber guys can figure their own floors with I-joists, but have tall walls and the like engineered. Go figure.I get paid to do carpentry. That makes me a professional.
If I work on my own house does that make me a DIY?
We use National Lumber, they have their own engineering dept and architects on staff. They use software from the I joist manufacturer for layouts, engineering, and specifics on situations such as this.
I usually just call my lumber salesman and explain the situation and spans, etc. He gets back to me with an answer... usually through the GC though. There's only been a couple times that I remember where I had to talk directly to engineering to have them advise me... both times that I remember where C/O's that impacted the roof framing a good deal.
Engineering is still on my mind as I built a large house this summer that had a 20' wide, 21' tall wall with six windows. Jobsite engineering prevailed, as I used eight LVL studs on the windows with blocks in between. The lumber supplier failed to provide and engineered plan for the wall with the lumber bid. All's well until inspection. He required paperwork for the wall. A week later, I was adding eight more LVLs and a bunch of glue. Not to mention the 16 Simpson clips and 12 straps. I guess a stamped piece of paper before hand would have been a good thing.
I get paid to do carpentry. That makes me a professional.
If I work on my own house does that make me a DIY?