9′ x 11′ patio adjoining a 40′ x 11′ covered porch. The floor is the same 14-16″ (didn’t measure yet) tiles entire area. It is concrete slab underneath.
tree broke 10 of the 50-60 tiles in the patio area (along w/ a bunch of other things that we have already fixed). As I was removing the broken tiles I realized that the adjacent ones were held in only by the grout…the thinset is in ridges underneath but it was never bedded down properly. Only 15 tiles were actually secured in thinset… the rest sat on top of the hardened mortar (dried too much before they set maybe?).
Pulled off all the tiles on the patio and got friendly w/ the local chipping hammer and 3″ chisel bit. Removed most of the thinset.
The surface is uneven. It was before and the tiles were all different heights but I’m not the guy that did them the first time.
My thought is to mix up self-leveling or even just mortar and skim the surface to attempt to get it smoother. Are there better ways or approaches to this? Did I go wrong several steps ago?
I can’t actually form up and level the entire surface because I assume it needs to pitch. the guys before assumed it needed additional topography as well.
Any comments or do I just slog away and make the best of it when it comes to each tile?
Replies
Best advice for this would probably be johnbridge.com
Bill
A tree broke the tiles, which were badly done. So you removed them all. Now the surface is uneven. How uneven?
You say you "can't actually form up and level the entire surface because I assume it needs to pitch" - yet you're thinking of fixing it with self-leveling cement? Does this seem contradictory to anyone else besides me?
You're also considering "just mortar and skim the surface to attempt to get it smoother" - Not sure exactly what this entails, but have you done it before, and did it solve the problem?
Have you done any remedial cement work before? Did you use forms or screed boards? What kind of tile are you planning on going back with? Is floor height an issue? Could you post some photos?
I recently had to correct some deficiencies on a concrete porch. I set form boards at about 2" high on one side, and tapered down to nothing on the other side. I used mortar over expanded metal lath over an isolation barrier, then tiled with concrete pavers in thinset, and grouted. Worked fine.
Wish I could be of more help.
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Unevenpretty bad. It had a valley going through it anyway and they tried to compensate w/ the thinset before. My skill w/ the hammer and a 3" bit improved but was nowhere near my concept of ideal.skim coatWell...my thought was that a to start smooth would make it easier to even out the height differences - eliminate the rocking over bumps.I have done concrete work. the issue I have is the height of the existing tile in the rest of the porch...unless I demo concrete I don't have any height to work w/.They have the same tiles as was previous. Porcelain...haven't looked at the boxes beyond that.The silly thought of self-leveling is that I believed it would skim and fill the dips from the chisel better than trusting a skim of concrete to bond. Maybe neither will. That's what I'm trying to find out. Might have to learn the hard way.I will get photos tomorrow. Broke the phone earlier this week. Been a great job.
I have always used forms when doing remedial work on porches or patios, even with self-leveling cement. Its hard to get a real thin layer on top of existing concrete, if height is not an issue, you can put a little thicker layer on, its easier."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
remedial work on concrete porchView Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Ready for tile (pavers)View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Hi
If you have access to a cup grinder do it that way. Mortar is relatively soft and even with a 5 in you should be able to clean off 150 ft in an hour. hook it to a vac even though it is outside. (the only reason i would not self level is by the time you invest in the product and the and the tools to do it right you could have purchased a really cool grinder............I like my hilti dcg 500 more than I like my self leveling spike shoes, pump, float and rollers.)
When you set your tile, you may want to prime the concrete with a bonding primer. Most likely the original bonding problem came from the concrete drawing the necessary water away from the mortar, resulting in poor bond.
ardex P 51 is a good primer. There are others as well.
Hopefully this helps
Craig
thanks for the primer advice. Gotta find out what you mean by cup grinder.
Removing old thinset is fun! =)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1k6PwwMepI
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
ha. fun.so sad.
I kept waiting for something to explode. Or at least for the guy to talk.
dang, I watched that whole thing.
Need to get up and get outta here.
Got a few photos. Haven't figured out how to get them off my phone yet. Set the tiles today. Will finish the perimeter tiles/grout after the holiday. It is not a job that I'm terribly proud of. The tiles are more even than the previous work but definitely far from perfect. I think I would have had to demo crete and float a new bed in order to get close...and that just wasn't going to happen this time around. I hope that primer makes a difference. Nothing worse than fixing someone else's mistake and then making your own...They have cedar siding that is cut in a "wave" pattern. Didn't realize the tile would match <hanging head>.Thanks for the input so far.
Pics of the progress. Not great details...