A customer wants me to build two bar type structures on a new patio for them. One near the house for a prep space, and a large kitchen island type for eating and serving near the bbq grill. They have porcelin tiles 12×12 and 18×12 and they want me to build something using these materials. Can I use this stuff outside, and if so, what would you do different because of weather etc? I’m thinking pt lumber skinned in duroc, then their tile. Do I use a special grout, sealer, or is this a dumb idea? I think something totally stone, with a marble top. These are out of the question, we’re talking lower budget here. I want to get them a quality product, but I don’t want to give up any work I can get right now. We live outside Chicago. Thanks
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Porcelian tile is ideal for an outdoor application due to its low moisture absorbtion. I would figure Durok or Dens-Shield would work fine for a substrate. You could even use a piece of Kerdi over the backer board to keep moisture out of the plywood ( I am assuming you are tiling a countertop). I would recommend a premium thinset, such as Custom mega flex or even pro-lastic from the Tile Shop. Epoxy would be your best bet for grout.
Your profile indicates Illinois, does freeze up there doesn't it. You will need tiles that are rated for exposure to freezing temp, and likely have great difficulty in finding a grout that won't crumble over time.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Andy C built just what you're describing last year and posted pictures here.
He's on Long Island, cold country there too.
Joe H
Porcelain tiles will work very well. Your problem is going to be moisture geting into the grout. It will either have to be sealed very well and renewed every year, or maybe use epoxy grout.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Use Kerdi over Durock and a good quality unmodified thinset. Go for epoxy grout; it's more expensive but it won't hurt. Seal the grout lines very well and tell the HO to make re-sealing part of his bi-annual maintenance schedule.
Forget the PT. If you do the tile job right, no water will get into the frame. (And if you do it wrong, the frame will be the least of your worries.)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Hey everyone,
Good information, i found a friend to help me who has done this very thing. Epoxy grout is the key, but must be worked quickly and carefully. Thanks alot.
mix with as cold water as you can find.....
clean up with as hot as you can stand hot water...
don't dally....
mix in small batches or as much as you can work in 10 to 15 minutes...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
You seal epoxy grout? There's really no need.
Yer right. Was writing faster than I was thinkin'.
Duh....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
been there, done that!
sealing the epoxy grout lines???
WTFF????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Go for epoxy grout; it's more expensive but it won't hurt. Seal the grout lines very well and tell the HO to make re-sealing part of his bi-annual maintenance schedule.
Now I'm confused. (Yeah, now - like it's a temporary state!)
I was under the impression that there was no benefit to sealing epoxy grout. Was I misinformed? Or does the sealing only apply if installed outdoors?
Jason
Jason, there's no need to seal epoxy grout. Indoors or outdoors.
Would the unmodified thinset be under the Kerdi or between the Kerdi and the tiles?I would think you would want the latex additive in a modified thinset if the bond between Kerdi and tile was subject to freeze thaw cycles.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
you're not supposed to use modified at all w/Kerdi but you can use Flexbond thinset which is just slightly modified.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I thought you could use modified between the kerdi and the tile, but plain between the kerdi and the substrate."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
As far as Schluter goes, for exterior in a freeze/thaw climate I'd use Ditra instead of Kerdi.
http://www.schluter.com/8_1_kerdi_6550.aspx
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Re: Schluter membranes and thinset--
Schluter recommends (read: requires for warranty purposes) unmodified thinset be used with its Kerdi and Ditra membranes because modified thinset does not cure, it dries by evaporation. Since both Kerdi and Ditra are waterproof--and so is most tile--the only place the water in the modified thinset can evaporate out is through the grout lines. So it can take a week or three before the thinset really dries, which is not practical in all but a very few cases....
However: In the case of a membrane laid over a permeable substrate such as plywood, you can use modified between the substrate and the membrane but unmodified is still indicated between the membrane and the tile.
All that said, I know quite a few people who have 'gotten away with' using modified with both Kerdi and Ditra. I also know people who have 'gotten away with' using mastic over greenboard on a wet wall. The real question is for how long...?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I did this last summer here on LI in NY.
http://picasaweb.google.com/andybuildz/BBQTILETOP?feat=directlink
Dbl layer of PT ply screwed and glued.
Thinset & screwed CBU's to top.
Applied 2 coats of Redgard over the cbu's (very important step IMO)
Thinset tile to top and borders.
grout and seal
voila'
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I actually searched and found that very photo story. I then decided that it was way over my head, and called my friend Jerry. If he gets the job, we'll work together and I can learn something new. Thanks