Ok, so I’m on to the next home improvement project. Couple of questions for the crowd if you dont mind.
Floor already has some sort of laminate flooring down that I’m told has asbestos in the glue and shouldnt be taken up. Contractor friend of mine says the floor and existing covering is rock solid.
Question #1: put down 1/4″ luan or ply or wonder board (might be too thick no?)
Question #3: glue (liquid nails) and screw down above with drywall screws or deck screws?
Question #3: adjoining room is hardwood floor. How do I best finish off the transition? Do they make wooden thresholds for this purpose?
As usual, any suggestions will surely be appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.
Replies
Question #1: might be too thick no? Only you can detrermine if it will be too thick. 1/4" Hardie would be better than luan.
glue (liquid nails) and screw down above with drywall screws or deck screws? Drywall screws are designed for ... drywall ... hence the name. Deck screws would work, and they also sell screws for hardie that have nibs under the head that help them to countersink. And use thinset, not glue.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Thinset underneath the hardi?
I pretty much agree with "toolsguy"--Wonderboard or whatever tile backer would be better than plywood. I know Wonderboard comes in 1/4" thichness and that shouldn't make the floor too thick (?). I'm pretty sure there are thresholds, wood or other, that will make the transition to the other floor. I tiled a bath once and used a piece of Corion (I know, it's not intended for that use) as a threshold. Oh, yes, use deck screws or the others he described, not drywall screws. PS Make sure the floor is plenty strong so when you get the tile set you don't get cracks between tiles from the floor flexing. (I had that problem, but my tiles were 12" squares about a 1/4" thick and I had a joint in the Durock; that's where the groutline cracked.)
Usually you have to make the wood threshold yourself, as the height transistion is variable. Router, tablesaw works wonders on a piece of oak/maple.
Have you got a sturdy, thick enough subfloor for tile under the old laminate?
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Yes, I've been told that the floor is rock solid and the contractor I mention above told me I would be safe with just luan or ply under the tile. Not sure though.
if the contractor is telling you to put luan under tile, you might reconsider who you get trustworthy information from
1/4" hardie backer. Definitely use square drive screws. You will be happy you did. The Hardie board is a pain to screw into with phillips head. Liquid Nails or Thin Set under the Hardie Board should be fine. I did the exact same thing in my kitchen five years ago, and no cracks or loose tiles yet. If you can tile under the front of the cabinets and dishwasher, it looks better when you put the toe kick back on. Don't tile the dishwasher in so that you can't get it back out.
We usually make a threshold out of some maple or oak. Takes about 30-40 minutes with a table saw and an orbital sander to make one.
Jim
Thanks Loyd, I'm going to use the hardi backer. Not sure if I'll be able to get the toe kick off or not though. I'll see.
You have any pics of what the thresholds look like that you make? Thanks for the tip on the dishwasher too.
Edited 7/1/2004 5:14 pm ET by Toolsguy
If you can't get the toekick of, which you probably can't, then consider install a piece of quarter-round trim after the tile is complete.
In addition to the dishwasher, you need to pull the fridge and the oven, if there is finished flooring under them. The dishwasher is the one most often ignored cuz it's a pain to remove.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
You just think the dishwasher is a pain to remove now, wait till the floor is 3/4 of an inch thicker, and you have to take up the counter, and the sink, oops now the backsplash. Man this 75 dollar install for a dishwasher is going very badly I think.
Dan
Thanks guys. I'll remember the humor when i'm cussing the dishwasher back into place. Or when i'm cussing it out and then scrap the whole project. We'll see.
and let's keeping in mind that trustworth info is coming from someone that's not intending to do the job?
How'za bout we focus on the basics here ... just what is this laminate floor ... with asbestos ... and again .... why ain't we getting down to the sub floor ... so we can see what the sub floor is ... and decide wether or not the sub floor is up to par ...
bacause as far as I know ... for sure ... some anonomous laminate floor covering .. and backer boars ... cement or not ... do not add any strength to the "substantial subfloor" equasion.
This whole thread is a list of possible answers to covering a questionable floor.
except for the "no luan" part ... that part applies no matter what ....
and yes .. they do make premilled ... prefinished T-molding for thresholds .. and some are milled for differing height transitions. They're every where ... or you can make your own ... or there's always marble ....
Here's a good question .. is the now decided upon CBU warrentied for appkication over the mystery asbestos flooring?
ahh ... the plot thickens. Where's that contractor buddy when ya need him ....
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Thanks Jeff. The floor is currently old (35 year old) linoleum (sp?) or something similar. Its very hard stuff but thin. The sub-floor underneath is in good condition as far as I can tell. My vantage points are 1. the floor doesnt move or squeek at all in any places 2. from underneath in the basement, there are no obvious marks ie water damage or anything.
I was told a while back that I would be better off not trying to take up the old flooring since the glue and or tile probably has asbestos in it. Figured if I put down concrete backer board and secured with liquid nails or thinset it would be quite sturdy.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
L
real lino can stay ...
"some" vinyl's can stay ...
cushion back vinyl must go ... ya can't put backer over cushion back vinyl.
this .. hard ... no felt-like backing .... sounds like real lino. Find out for sure ... then cover it up. Use a polymodified thinset troweled under the backer as a leveling agent .. and it'll give a little stick ... but that's what the screwsnails are for.
IF the subfloor is up to it ... 1/4 backer is fine ... as a matter a fact ... going up to 1/2 inch just gives ya that extra 1/4 ... there's no structural value to backer boards ... concrete or not. Just gives ya a nice clean surface with good bite.
I'm not sure if you can put Ditra directly over lino ... bet their website would say ...
http://www.schluter.com
I'd guess you can ... but I'd wanna find out for sure my self first ... haven't had the occasion to do so myself ... just laid 500ft sq of the stuff over a concrete basement floor on Fri ... lots nicer to carry in and move around that 500 ft sq of CBU's ... each 300 ft sq rool weighs about 40 or 50 lbs ....maybe even 30? Throw it over the shoulder and walk it in easily ...
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Well Jeff, I got a bit side tracked today. Firgured before I re-did the kitchen floor I would first take on a "simple" project and replace the sink in the half-bath.
As I was removing it, the waste pipe broke off behind the drywall. Original pipes (35 years od) and just snapped off. To make a long story short, after I opened up the wall, I decided what the heck...why not remod the entire bathroom. Gutted everything and took out old tile and concrete subfloor.
Question: the ply subfloor is quite damaged from an apparent water leak all these years. Its mushy near the toilet flange and bounces a bit near the edges. I'm hesitant to put new ply over it because I dont want to use up the gap between the ply and the bottom of the flange for when I go to tile.
Should I take up the old ply and put new down? The prob is that some of the ply goes underneath the wall and into the next room so cutting it would leave it unsupported.
Put a 2x6 nailer in between the beams and nail into that? Not sure. Could use a bit of advice.
Here are some pics
I'm not a tremendous fan of Hardiback.
I "love" Wonderboard. 1/2"
The lil' bit of extra thickness will serve you well IMO...or lets put it this way....won't hurt anything.
Use "Wonderboard" screws, not nails.
Luan is absolutly ridiculous IMO...
The transition should be a creative thought in your mind...
there are so many options to go with.
The simplest is a saddle of oak or marble but there are so many other things you could do.
I'd need to see the rooms in a pix to come up with an idea for you.
Did I miss something or didnt I see what you intend to put down exactly?
What kind of tile?
Be creative
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks. I'll post a pics next and you can see the type of flooring this is. Probably be of help to others here offering help too. Havent decided what kind of tile to use yet but I like the natural colors ie terra cotta style or the ones that look like stone a bit. I'll have to go to the local tile store and check out the options.
Is the tile at Home Depot worth checking out? I'm a bit sceptical about the quality of durable goods such as this there.
L
Edited 7/4/2004 8:12 am ET by Toolsguy
Ok all, heres a pic I had of the room from another project. You can sort of see what kind of flooring is there and the transition area.
Thanks for the help ahead of time
toolsguy
The tile I've been using in my house that I really like a lot is
tumbled marble.
Its a real soft look and isnt as sterile looking IMO as porcelain typ tile.
I also like using terricota .
You can buy it natural and stain it yourself or get it prestained and finshed.
I had prices of tumbled marble at $7-8 a sq ft and found the exact same tile at Home Depot "Expo" for $3.50.
HD Expo does happen to have a great showroom of tiles.
The regular HD has crap.
In your case I'd probably fashion my own oak saddle as the transition piece.
BE floored
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks Andy, I'll check it all out.
Use cement board/backer board and thinset. The underlayment floats on the thinset and is isolated from the movement of the walls. You may also want to consider Schluter Ditra as an alternative underlayment, it only adds 1/8".
I've heard cement board is more durable than backer board, the latter is certainly more favored of the DIY crowd. I'd love to be contradicted on this, I'm preparing to use cement board in my own bathroom and dreading it.
What makes the cement board more durable? Honest question. Both are made of cement, just different stuff added. Once it's on the floor and properly supported ... not spanning significant depressions ... they should both work well.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Mea culpa, I should have clarified I meant gypsum-core backer board. I do hear reluctance from the pros to endorse Hardibacker (including someone on this thread), I am curious myself what the reservations are...
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT dENS sHIELD, WHICH IS BASICALLY SHEETROCK IN A FIBERGLASS WRAP? iS THAT RATE FOR FLOOR USE?
Dang, caps lock was on...sorry.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I wondered why you were shouting! :)
Dang (rubbing ears)...I don't have brand names but that sounds plausible....anyway this is a bit of thread drift....I myself would be grateful for insights into why e.g. Andy Clifford prefers Wonderboard over Hardibacker....
Edit: Rated for floor use? No idea, probably not, I'm looking at alternatives for tub surround, not looking forward to hefting cement board...
Edited 7/3/2004 5:34 pm ET by Taylor
Well, since the discussion is titled "tiling kitchen floor" I thought thats what you were refering to.
Three products available for shower walls: 1/2" cement board aka cbu; 1/4" or 1/2" hardiebacker; 1/2" Durock. The cement board is the heavy nasty stuff that lasts forever. Hardiebacker is just as good, but easier to work with. The Durock looks like sheetrock, but it has fibers reinforcing the core, and the skin in water resistant, much more so than greenboard, as long as the joints are caulked. Soem people say Durock is just as good ... I stick with cement board or hardie.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt