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Here I go opening up the can of worms again!
My 16-year old Milwaukee is getting tired so I’m looking at taking the 150$ plunge.
Before you guys get all fired up for another worm-drive/side-winder war, let me say that I’ve been using a s-w since the beginning so thats what I’m looking for.
Don’t Take it personally all you left-coasters, But having just turned 40 and being in a smaller high-end remodeling outfit, I just can’t justify allthe extra wieght of a W-D. If I were framing on a regular basis I wolud definitely have at least one Mag-77.
That said, Iwould buy another Milw. but I’m skeptical of this new handle.
Is it just a gimmick or will it hold up and prove usefull?
As for other brands how do they hold up?
Porter cable is out!! (Were they bought out by Fischer-Price or something? Used to make a decent saw, now they’re disposable glorified home-owner saws)
Dewalt- why are they 30+ dollars more? I would pay this if it represented an honest investment in quality.
Makita- Alocal hardware-store manager told me that Makita is the only brand that still uses all ball & needle bearings opposed to bushings. If this is true they will be on my short list!!
Hitachi- Ive always been impressed with their tools, but Ive never seen one of their saws outside a store. Any comments?
Skil- Didnt they used to make a S-W the was almost as rugged as thier W-D?
Other Brand to consider?..Bosch??
How about hearing from any of you Product reps out there incyber space?
Tell me why Your saw will out perform another.
How about a new Article for the FHB mag?!!!
Thanks in advance for any input.
Tony Ferrito
Replies
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sorry tony.. PC for me.....they're grrrrrreat !
*Porter Cable is still owned by PentAir; their framing saws are still good - check their specs and you will see they also have ball/needle construction.But a more basic question - why switch from Milwaukee. They are the only domestic industrial tool line - all the others are "tradesman" or mid-level tools. Also, they are the only major tool manufacturer that has a life time warranty - everyone else is 1 or 2 years.I just finished a school remodeling job and I had a number of tough jobs - boiler removal, sprinkler installation, new wiring, etc. My subs consistenly used two brands of tools - Milwaukee and Hilti. My boiler contractor showed me a whole crate of 2 and 3 year old DeWalts that gave up - recip saws with failed gear trains, drills that burned up, etc. He switched to Milwaukee and hasn't had any fialures. Stick with what you have had success with.
*For cutting one board a day I might go with a 24 volt cordless or the 7 pound Makita...near the older and lighter tool stream,ajFraming is a different beast for sure...77 land...
*Tony, sounds like you've been talking to a DeWalt rep.I've many P-C tools... some recent, some 10 yrs old.Only crap I got was the drywall router-thingy... the new design with a set-screw instead of collets. Worked for about 30 minutes. Buh-bye.New sidewinders seem well constructed... and the old models are still available. Drills, Routers, Recips... may not be the most deluxe, but work... each and every day.Milwaukee's new handle? I'll wait.Other Brands?DeWalt? No. "Lifetime Warrantee"? You'll be wanting that... and a spare tool onsite.Friends have Hitachi... check where it's made... I see some items that used to be either Ireland or Japan are now China. I'd buy anything but the China-made.Bosch? One fellow I know has a 8 1/2" Bosch saw... and won't part with it... finding blades can be interesting. All my Bosch tools stand up to use and abuse.
*Why would we "...take it personally..." that you use antiquated, akward, ill ballanced tools? I still have an old Lufkin 6 foot folding rule with my name under the brass extension too. I'd send it to you but I'm savin' it as a relic. Worm drives, there ain't nothin' else worth usin'.
*I ran into a friend the other day who said she's just bought a Festo (sp?); claims it's the best SW she's ever had.
*A gurl with a Festo? She's marrying material!
*She's actually a very good carpenter. I met her at work when she was a secretary; married one of the marketing types and "retired" to give him 4 kids only to be traded in on a younger model while she was pregnant with her last; 12 years on a small, often missed, alimony payments and a small crafts business, plus wellfare; she tried to return to work, but the best she could get were pink-collar at low wages so she took carpentry, followed by cabinet-making at Georgian College on a UI grant program; a bunch of us passed the hat to buy her a starter set of tools and she went to work for a company that was renovating Cabbagetown row homes for yuppies; one of her kids became an architect and she married one of his teachers; they moved to Muskoka where they buy old cottages and do them over into winterized retirement homes for resale. She comes down to Toronto regularly on buying missions and always does lunch with a couple of her tool benefactors when she's in town.
*I had a Milwaukee for a time and gave it to a friend starting up a contractor business - thought I was done with that sort of thing. The old style Milwaukee with the funny height adjustment is still made. The man I gave mine to seemed to think that the bearings were some of the best he had seen insofar as runnout is concerned. I bought a De Walt 364 to replace mine. It is heavy, but will cut straignt with little runnout - I know Yellow and Black crap. Recently I bought a second saw, a Makita 15.8 battery, and for convenience and light work, it is great, but it is about $340 if you include a second battery. If I were to buy another corded saw, it would be either a Milwaukee old style, or a Dewalt as I have had had no problems with the switch. Dennis
*Tony, what's tired that can't be rejuvenated? Still have and use a Rockwell 315 that maybe 10yrs ago had a new armature installed. Now on its 29th year and running strong and true. Managed to pick up a cpl more, rescued from the pound. A few bucks to rejuv. them and they too run like new. If that old style Milwaukee isnt too bad off think about giving it new life. Don't get too caught up in this discard thing. Best of luck.
*The next circular saw I buy will be the Festo with the guide plate. I guy I've been subbing for all summer has one, and he guards it like it's made of gold. It ain't (as a matter of fact, it seems a little flimsy to me), but it's darn good at what it does, which is cut an accurate straight line in the field. You can make cabinets with it almost easier than with a table saw. Nothing is better at trimming cabinet doors. I was using it today to cut fiber-cement panels for a very exacting exterior project.The Festo is definately not for diminsional lumber work, though.For that I have to blush and admit I like my DeWalt. It may crap out on me prematurely, judging from what you all say about DeWalt, but I like the way it handles. And being a one-man remodeler, It doesn't see all-day use, so it may even last me a while.Steve
*Tony, if you like Milwaukee, stick to it. Unless you also like to experiment. I have used the old milwaukee extensively, but could never get more than five years out of one. Maybe 6 or seven. I switched to the Makita and found I prefer it for it's lighter feel and balance.I just tried two Hitachi's and found that their shell is too weak for "rough" carpenters. My housing cracked when a half sheet of ply hit it squarely. I do like the table better except for the angle adjustment that likes to walk while tighening. I'm going back to makita.Im not sure how much abuse the adjustable handle can take. I probably should try one just to see if they can handle the abuse that I dish out, and if the adjuster is a good thing. I think it might, but maybe I'd never change it. Dewalt is too heavy for fast framing. The worm drives probably are more powerful. But why?On the "Booger' with blue" house, I actually stacked four 7/16" osb ply together and cut them with my hitachi. The saw went through the stock without incident. I didn't push it, but it whacked them fine. Then I thought about it and realized that I only stack ply together about once a month. Why should I be worried about getting though that cut five seconds faster if I'm only hawging once a month? Is the extra weight and power really needed?NO!The lightweight speed of the sidewinders are easily powerful enough for roughing with the lightweight spf, and firs that are routinely used today. If I had to whack a stack of oak, I might not be happy, but I haven't ever roughed with oak and I hardly think I will.The biggest variable is the blade.Remember, I'm willing to put my sidewinder to the test. Send me a wormie crew and I'll put my winder up against them.And....I'm going to get me one of those milwaukees and put it to the test.blueDon't believe anything the reps tell you. Ask your local tool repairman.
*In the SW department, I've been through a Makita (I won this one) I used for around 8 yrs untill I droped it off a roof about 30' in the air. I bought a DeWalt that lasted about 6 mos. I bought the new Milwaukee about 3 mos. ago and so far so good. I rarely use the handle adjustment unless I have to make cuts in one material, in one position for a good while.
*I used a Makita for several years til it was stolen, really liked its weight and balance, though it was a little hard to see the blade at times. I bought a Bosch (B5600)4 years ago and have been thrilled. Don't used the lever on top that lifts the blade guard as much as I thought I would -- but it's solid, powerful, well-balanced, easy to see blade, a joy. FH article was very helpful at the time -- if I remember right, main point was that there are lots of good models, it's a matter of personal preference.
*For remodeling, the top handle adjust DeWalt is pretty cool. Has that rear pivot foot thing. Works great when you gotta change the depth alot. Second would be a Milwaukee w/o the goofy handle slide thing. Jeff
*Tony,I had an old Milwaulkee that I loved that gave up the ghost this spring.shop gave me a price of $140 to fix. I bought a Porter cable instead.For about $115.Got one with blade on left---works great for me.I don't know if it would hold up to heavy production framing,but as I mostly cut roof sheating (7/16 osb) with it and the occasional rafter I am pretty happy with it.
*Tony, I can say that I recently had a need for a sw and went first for a mak. since I had just gotten 15 years out of one. I got it home and it had an 1/8 " crown in the table so I took it back and tried a pc and have been very happy with it. Ps. I had a bosch for about 4 years and it was truly a piece of trash.
*Got one of each. Old skil 77 and a P/C sidewinder. The P/C gets used for everything. It seems indestructable, just a little down on power if you need to bend a cut a little. The main reason I chose it though was the left side blade. I have used that old skil for so long that a saw with the blade on the right just doesn't get it for me. I think it might be that old dog/new trick phenomenon.
*I'm happy with my PC sidewinder; I think it's a good tool. I rarely cut SPF, but it gets used a lot on rough hardwoods, sheet stock and solid surface (brutal), and I've got no complaints. I'm looking to double up on a lot of tools (shop tools and installation tools), and I kinda like experimenting, so eventually I'm going to add a Festo for really accurate stuff, and another sidewinder, probably a Milwaukee (I've just started adding some red tools) or a Bosch, maybe the bigger one. The negative comment above was one of very few I've ever heard about Bosch, and all my blue stuff works great.
*Thanks for all the input !!I've decided to Take the old milwaukee in for some re-hab. If my local repair-miester can get rid of the end-play, I'll keep using it for the finer stuff.I have three base plates for tis saw.One has that HDPE stuff for no mar cuts on the good stuff,one I cut the narrow side off so i can get closer tovarious obstacles. The last is the oirginal and is quite beat up so I use it for demo work.While the old mil is in the shop I'll be trying to see if I can get used to my father-in-laws WORM DRIVE!!!I really like the Idea of have two saws the tilt in opposite directions. Had a PC saw boss, really like the concept but it died before the first blade got dull and the cost to repair it was more than I paid for it!!! Jim, A million or so Left-coasters can't all be wrong. Maybe I'll convert, who knows??Thanks again.. Tony
*Tony, if that wormdrive you're using isn't a Skill Mag 77 you will be sold if you use one. I used to frame with Skill's best side winder and coulldn't get one to last much more than a year , same for the Makita's. But I tend to agree with the others, stick with what you like and are used to using. Steve
*Well, I figure I'll see if I can get my foot a bit further up a particular orafice on this one. I just went through the same thing... worm vs. sidewinder. I can say that I prefer a sidewinder - preferably a nice blue one - to anything else. I have never used a worm, but I have used left-hand sidewinders and I always fine the saw wanting to fall off the workpiece.... hmmmm, must be because the blade's on the wrong side. I hate that. So..... I use a Makita and I'm all set. Blue will back me up on this... right? LOL - I'll see what this stirs up - Nick
*Fix the Milwaukee, Tony. There is almost nothing else around for a reasonable price that compares to it. My three partners have Makitas. One (of the saws) shrieks and screams, one grinds and vibrates, one stays in its box and looks pretty. None of them is as old as my Milwaukee, which, at 6 or 7 years old, acts like a new tool. I owned an 8 inch Bosch, too, a long time ago, and havent been able to pick up a Bosch tool since. Owned an 8 inch Ryobi. (Man, was I ever dumb.) Owned a metal case Skil sidewinder, too, but they havenèt made them in 20 years. Do yourself a favour and fix the Milwaukee.
*I've been thinking of adding another sidewinder to my tool collection, but I'm afraid I will be disapointed with any thing I buy. The saw I am currently using is a B&D 8". My mom bought it in 1958 as an aniversary present for my dad. It has held up perfectly. It is a bit heavy for some work, but it sure is nice when you need that little bit of extra reach. I know that someday it will have to go to the shop for a rebuild, but until it does I'll keep plugging away with it.
*Tim, A 1958 B&D inch? All metal houseing with a front and rear shoe depth adjustment? If it is the same one I have the arbor is 11/8". It is a beast, but too heavey to swing all day, and I can't find but one type combo blade at the B&D dealer. I'm not sentimental about this thing, I just can't find an antique collector that wants one.
*I,ve owned several Makita's when they were the rage. One Hitachi. One Milwaukee and one Porter Cable. All were decent saws until they were dropped, destroyed, burned up or more. None wre good enough to make me brand loyal until I bought the latest Bosch. This saw is a gem for all kinds of carpentry. Actually there are not many Bosch tools that I've found lacking. Try it.
*
Here I go opening up the can of worms again!
My 16-year old Milwaukee is getting tired so I'm looking at taking the 150$ plunge.
Before you guys get all fired up for another worm-drive/side-winder war, let me say that I've been using a s-w since the beginning so thats what I'm looking for.
Don't Take it personally all you left-coasters, But having just turned 40 and being in a smaller high-end remodeling outfit, I just can't justify allthe extra wieght of a W-D. If I were framing on a regular basis I wolud definitely have at least one Mag-77.
That said, Iwould buy another Milw. but I'm skeptical of this new handle.
Is it just a gimmick or will it hold up and prove usefull?
As for other brands how do they hold up?
Porter cable is out!! (Were they bought out by Fischer-Price or something? Used to make a decent saw, now they're disposable glorified home-owner saws)
Dewalt- why are they 30+ dollars more? I would pay this if it represented an honest investment in quality.
Makita- Alocal hardware-store manager told me that Makita is the only brand that still uses all ball & needle bearings opposed to bushings. If this is true they will be on my short list!!
Hitachi- Ive always been impressed with their tools, but Ive never seen one of their saws outside a store. Any comments?
Skil- Didnt they used to make a S-W the was almost as rugged as thier W-D?
Other Brand to consider?..Bosch??
How about hearing from any of you Product reps out there incyber space?
Tell me why Your saw will out perform another.
How about a new Article for the FHB mag?!!!
Thanks in advance for any input.
Tony Ferrito