This has been going on for the last three months…house is under remodeling but it would have been nice to cool the place down when it was over 100*
Guy doesn’t show up or when he does, parts are missing and works an hour or so.
decides he wants $1500 more for the roof gas pack unit… just because. I still paid $650 more for the unit than what was quoted.
I pay the crane guy $175 to put it on the roof because his friend doesn’t have access to lift anymore.
he brazes the line set and every joint leaks(all 6 of them). One of his guys has to go back and redo the whole line set. Will only pay him to work for 6 hours. He makes a plenum out of duct board because “the metal plenum was sent to the wrong job” I find out later he never ordered the parts
Doesn’t want to do the “dirty work” crawling under the house( big deal, I do it all the time). Most of the crawl space you can sit or almost stand to tie into the existing registers
Now he wants the balance before he will come back and finish
I fire him.
I finally find someone to sells duct parts to finish running the pipes on the lower floor unit. HVAC houses won’t usually sell to unlicensed, but the supply house for my plumbing supplies will. I spend about $500 in parts, I have already spent another $500 in parts that he should have paid for (line set, wire, thermostats, disconnects, misc parts)
Spend two days running that and now I have to clean up the mess outside for the lines sets and the 45′ run will need for freon because the precharge is only for 25′
I run the electrical and the gas and finish that part for him. Just to help “get it done”
To top it off, The SOB ran the supply& return to the wrond sides of the unit(bottom vented). Air blows out of the return air grill, not in each room
So… eventhough you hire a “qualified” guy, doesn’t mean you’ll get it done…right. In the end this will cost me about $700 more to pay a friend to help me run the dust work and my time is free
……………….Done venting. Now I need a stiff drink, or two
Tomorrow I start reworking the return and suppy lines. At least it will be done correctly.
Oh frick’n joy!!!
Edited 10/2/2006 3:09 pm by migraine
Replies
I see where you got your screen name from. Ouch.
EDIT: Brace yourself. Someone will be along shortly to insult you for hiring the low bidder. It really doesn't matter whether you did it or not. Nobody really cares. It's just more fun that way. :)
Edited 10/2/2006 3:55 pm ET by dieselpig
DP, I always enjoy you responses
Who said anything about low bidder??? Gotta get that jab in ya'know?
had 3 others look at the project. One dropped a baggie of pot on the ground and the other never returned a written or verbal bid. The third was priced about the same, but never followed through with a written proposal and too hard to get ahold of.
The guy we chose was a recomendation from a mutual friend. The mutual friend is the one that has helped me get the thing finished.
BTW... migraines are from cevical spine injury which has almost put me out of total commision. There going to have to pry them tools out of my paralized hands before I ever quit.
Now I'm a gimp with alot of tools. I got a electric jack hammer I'll sell you ;0)
Maybe time to change my handle
Whoa Tiger! I was kidding with you. What I was trying to say is that the way these threads usually go.... sooner or later someone will come by and add insult to injury by suggesting that this is somehow your own fault for hiring a low bidder or something.
I was trying to make light of it by forewarning you..... that's why I said 'buckle up'.
I guess it missed it's mark. Read it again, if you don't mind, and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.
Also......
he said "Don't just vent here".
Not, "Just don't vent here".
See the difference? He was telling you that in addition to venting here, you should continue to vent to your aquaintences.... so the guy doesn't get any more work and screw over more people.
We're on your side, bud. Just trying to make light of what sounds like a sh2tty situation for you. My apologies.
View Image
I got it....maybe you think I didn't. You think? :0)
It was a vent to relieve the built up frustration. Nothing worse than having everything done, you flip the switch and the air starts blowing the wrong direction.
Looking back, nothing blew up and both units work. I'll drink to that
Tomorrows another day
I'm really making a mess out of this, aren't I? ;)
Carry on.View Image
all in fun...
humor is the best medicine
Thanks for the clarification. I am directly involved with the HVAC industry in my relatively small town (pop. 160K). Everyone that pays attention, knows everyone else. I am often asked to either recommend a contractor for a job or asked my opinion/experience about/with a certain contractor. When I am asked about one that I personally know has done or regularly performs substandard work, I relay that information, albeit, in as diplomatic a manner as I can. I am asked about the engineering companies in town as well and the same thing applies. I have developed a reputation of knowing my craft and being direct and critical of those that do and those that do not. Subsequently, my recommendations to use or not to use a particular contractor holds some weight and is usually heeded.
Don't let the underacheivers drag the rest of us down. Tell every supplier, general contractor, builder, plumber and electrican about the loser posing as a qualified professional and let the chips fall where they may.
"The guy we chose was a recomendation from a mutual friend. The mutual friend is the one that has helped me get the thing finished."
This probably goes without saying, but this "mutual friend's" recommendations are obviously useless. Based on what you posted, this guy wasn't even close to being adequate.
I think he is qualified(yeah right), just too over extended to do the work in a timely manner. Plus when you take in account the amount of time that he came out here will the the missing/wrong parts or not enough gas for brazing, ect. He spent way more time commuting to the job then he did working.
Funny think just happened today. One of the other companies that didn't get back to me just called and left a message seeing if I was still interested in working with him. He did appolgize for being too busy to get back to me earlier in the season. I guess things have slowed down
"...just too over extended to do the work in a timely manner."
If you know going into a job that you can't do it and you take it anyway, that's even worse. If he's capable of doing acceptable work, but for you decided the $hittiest possible is ok. In my book, these level below the loser hack I pegged him for in the first place.
I bet this is worse then just the lower bidder..
I bet he hired illegals to boot
Someone will be along shortly to insult you for hiring the low bidder. now you see why couple weeks ago I said to hire the biggest hvac contractor in town with thirty employees and forty years expriences, its all about reputation in the hvac circle
LOL.... I did exactly that on my own house. Big outfit, probably 20 trucks. Glossy presentation and big price tag. But since we were replacing the entire heating/cooling system in our house and I know next to nothing about HVAC work, I figured this wasn't the place to shop price.
I shoulda shopped price. For all the aggravation and callbacks and still not really being happy with what I got, I should have just cut to the chase and hired someone that I knew would screw it all up. Woulda saved me the disappointment.
Some days you get the bear. Some days the bear gets you.View Image
just rememeber when ever bear hunting. I dont have to out run the bear, just out run you.
I took your advice from different threads and hired the best contractor not caring about the cost for HVAC. Got a furnace and 2 1/2 ton AC installed in one week with ducts. Ask around who was the best in my area, and I'm pretty happy
I think it was the tread about best brands and you mentioned its the installation and not the brand with makes the difference.........thanks
ya, best to rant and get it off the chest before you get a migraine.
Andrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generations
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.
Forrest - makin' magic every day
It makes you wonder? How many hard working people has this joker victimized? Did he have velcro shoes? Ride the bus to work?
Do everyone a big favor, spread his name around as much as possible. Tell everyone that will listen, don't use this so&so. Don't just vent here.
Don't just vent here
Yeah, your right.
Probably should have posted this in the Tavern where all the politcal whinning/venting goes on
Don't just vent, sue!
Probably right...I just don't feel like dealing with this one more minute. Better to spend my energy on something more productive.
...just worn out and tired
shtty situation...
If you see him in town sometime or at some supplier be sure to go up to him, say hello, then real loud like, mention how you managed to fix all his screw up's on "that job" something like, "don't worry buddy, I managed to get the air running the right way! And Hey, I also was able to get someone that could actually braze the lines so all the freon didn't leak out! You get the picture...
public humiliation is the most fun for me
So true!
Ran into a plumber at the supply house once and laid it on him in front of all his peers and other customers in the place. Guys at the supply house said they had heard his customers complain about him for years, but had never heard a contractor dress him down so well in front of a bunch of people.
Maybe he didn't loose any work from the encounter,....but it made me feel better.
Dave
Played right, that's a fun game.But it'll make some people hate you
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yeah... I should probably worry a little more then I do about who hates me....
The trick is to do it with a smile ;)
I believe you told a story, or maybe I'm confused?, about doing something similiar to a guy who owed you money.
Exactly. Love the way he sputters and avoids me.I've gotten that fiftydollars worth of fun out him him fivew times over.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Don't just vent, sue!Like the poor guy ain't got enuf to worry him, you gotta call him a gurl's name? LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The package units I have used come pre charged from the factory, there is no brazing or charging to do in the field. You wire it up, hook up the gas and the duct work and just fire it up. Yours didnt come this way? Just curious.
Yes, your right... but we had 2 units. One in the basement for the main floor and one on the roof for the second story(this was the package unit)
Sorry for the confusion
well i'm going to be as stupid as the guy that put it in,any chance that the motor wiring got messed up and is turning in reverse or he had the fan off and put it on backwards?it takes a special kinda hvac guy to reverse the supply/return. good luck larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Report him to the Contractors State License Board at
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/
They have all the information you need you need to know.
Filing a complaint is at http://www.cslb.ca.gov/consumers/infocomplaint.asp
In CA, "Contractors cannot ask for a deposit of more than 10% of the total cost of the job or $1000, whichever is less — unless the contractor provides a bond, approved bond equivalent, or approved joint control ensuring completion of your contract. Any such bond is in addition to the bond required of all contractors for licensure. (This goes for any home improvement project including swimming pools.)"
Yeah, I know what they say in Ca. but that has never stopped people from asking for more, including me.
When I had my license here I would usually ask for 50% up front. Usually becasue the cost of materials was high and I had quite a bit of time invested in the job before I started cutting materials
Only once in a while a homeowner would not agree and then we would go by the "law". I then would go 10%,30%, 30, 20%, 10% and they would be required to pay this before anymore work would continue. I would also explain to them where the was going.
I also used drawings as a reason for requesting more up front since work has already started. In contactingthe CSLB, they would always tell me that I must consult an attorney when it came to questions about billing/law. Even though theywere willing to answer questions for a homeowner if they called
Then again, I never screwed a client
If you sense there might be a problem there is a way to make sure the supplier gets paid to be sure things are covered. Write the materials check to the supplier and another check to him. I never thought about it until a salesman once told me that is how he got started without any money to start. When I read your posting I wondered if he had a license.
"If you sense there might be a problem there is a way to make sure the supplier gets paid to be sure things are covered. Write the materials check to the supplier and another check to him."Several years ago someone in another forum said that he was going to get HD to do his bathroom remodel.That he was tired of CA contractors and felt that the lien laws favored the contractor.He had recently had a reroof and did just what you said. (or it was a joint check to the contractor and supplier - don't remember which).The supplier went ahead and placed a lien on his house. Turns out that the roofer was behind in payment to the supplier. So the supplier applied whatever he got to the oldest charge and liened the newer ones until the payments got that far.Told him that the problem was not with the lien laws, but with that supplier. What he was doing was highly illegal.
it was a joint check to the contractor and supplier - don't remember which).
The supplier went ahead and placed a lien on his house.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
That supplier's really gonna learn what "Cost" means.
SamT
Have been licensed in CA since 1982 and have never had one problem. There were times when I asked a lot of questions and asked for references when someone would want me to build when I did not know them. Once it saved my bacon. The homeowner it turns out had a lot of problems with other contractors. There is seldom a problem when everyone does what they say they will do. For awhile I was not in construction and worked for a major supplier. I remember once when we audited a company who wanted to buy $1 million of moldings, etc. from us. I think there are a lot of contractors nationwide who are greedy and take on more than they can handle in terms of finances and management skills.
"Turns out that the roofer was behind in payment to the supplier. So the supplier applied whatever he got to the oldest charge and liened the newer ones until the payments got that far.Told him that the problem was not with the lien laws, but with that supplier. What he was doing was highly illegal."Sounds like what the supplier did was illegal. Would have made a good court case for Judge Judy.
Spend two days running that and now I have to clean up the mess outside for the lines sets and the 45' run will need for freon because the precharge is only for 25'
Hope he increased the line size and added a trap for the longer run or your problems could just be starting with a RTU.
Call the unit manufacture and ask their engineering support group about what you have vs. what they reccomend.
Dave
The "low bidder" is not a guarantee of shoddy workmanship.
Work done by the "biggest HVAC outfit in town" is not a guarantee of competent work.
Licensing and things like NATE certification will not guarantee a top notch job, either.
The trouble with HVAC in particular is that it is technically complex if the goal is a properly functioning system. There are all kinds of variables like fitting design, lineset installation practices (brazing/soldering/N2 purging...), proper vacuuming of a split system, duct sealant or not, flex duct monsters or insulated metal... and on and on... that have a major impact on the price of the job.
A job for a typical builder only has to last a year. A typical builder will NOT pay for even a mediocre HVAC system. The homeowner gets screwed in the end.
The typical homeowner shopping for HVAC on their own is quickly overwhelmed with the particulars of a properly installed HVAC system. The eyes glaze over and they tune it out until it comes down to the final question of How much is it...
The trouble with most people shopping for a HVAC system is they are usually focused on the price. High number is automatically bad and the low number is automatically good. The customer loses sight of what it takes to do it right at a fair price. The customer asks to "do the job right" then has a problem with the bid for a job "done right" compared to a job that is simply "done" because the costs differ by a wide margin.
Now, when you explain what it takes to do it right, shady SOB's will take that information to the low bid guy that can't figure it out. That's why no one wants to do inclusive proposals detailing the how, where and why. Let's not even discuss the issue of actually being paid to do the consultation, estimate and proposal separate from the job itself.
I find it hard to believe that the person hired by migraine had a recommendation from someone else, but stranger things have happened.
He is licensed, right? Just sue him. You may not get anything out of it but at least its a step in the right direction.
I had an HVAC guy take three months to rough in a furnace at a house I was doing. I had used him before and never really had a problem (come to think of it his was the only inspection that didnt pass first time), but on this house, I dont know, he just gapped.
I finally tried firing him when the drywall guys wouldnt mud without heat. I cam in the next day and he had a working furnace on site, it wasnt hooked to anything but it worked.
He came back about 2 mos later to finally hook up the air conditioning.
Couldnt believe it, first sub in, last one out.