Hi all
First, let me say I’m not a plumber.
But I do know my way around the usual things.
I have a toilet that keeps stopping up.
I use a closet auger on it and it works again.
I suspect a clog further down (joint, elbow, junction, who knows).
Ceiling is finished, so pipes are not easily accessable.
I plan to run a snake down further to clear it (hopefully), but the snake doesn’t have anything to protect the porcelon.
Can I do it, or do I need to remove te toilet first?
Any good thoughts?
Jeff
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Replies
About 2/3 of the time, when this is a problem, something like a comb or child's toy truck has gotten stuck in the gooseneck of the toilet. The plunger won't dislodge it and the standard snake will go right past it. You generally have to pull the stool to remove the object (and sometimes you can only remove it with a sledge hammer).
About 1/4 of the time, the problem is that the jet at the bottom of the toilet has gotten limed up, or something else is reducing the flow into the toilet. (Some claim that using those in-tank cleaner gizmos adds enough viscosity to the water to make a marginal toilet clog.)
The other 1/12 of the time the problem is simply a crappy toilet (before anyone sat on it).
In general, if the clog is farther down the pipe, there will be leakage at the base of the toilet that will be noticed eventually.
To snake out a toilet, you can get an elbow like on a closet auger, but which will pass a compact snake head. If you can't find one ready-made you could probably bend one out of plastic conduit.
I vote with Dan.The first thing I would do is pull the toilet and make sure there is nothing in the toilet itself.I once had a plastic Q-tip sitting across the drain openning. The toilet easily clogged and was easily plunged, repeat.The Q-tip just barely made it across, but it hung in there through several plungings.I once found a pair of sunglasses in a toilet. Same thing. Easy clog, easy plunge.Of course, I also, am no plumber!Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Is this a new toilet? If so, the fault may lie in a manufacturing defect within the trap portion of the wc.
Put a glove on and feel inside as high as you can reach. Watch you don't get cut as there may be a tiny bit of porcelain sticking out (which grabs at whatever happens to flow by). Or there may be a dry spot - no glazing - where toilet paper is slowed down by friction. Both defects lead to frequent log jams.
I've also seen a plastic tampon applicator stuck crosswise in the wc's throat. You can snake right past such obstructions all day and never even know it is there... Drop a weighted cord through the wc trap (after lifting the wc) and use it to pull a stout rag right through - kinda like swabbing a gun barrel. Make sure you've got cord on both sides, in case it gets stuck in there and you need to back it out. ;) A wet-dry shop vac is a great tool for drying out a trap.
Sometimes the problem lays way downstream, on the main waste pipe under the lawn...a partially collapsed pipe that still allows fluid to drain through slowly, or a rooted-in join in old clay pipe. What can happen is while you're busy snaking, the drain empties just enough to hold most of the next flush, but no quite all. Try experimenting by running all other house taps full on, to see if the nature of the problem changes, i.e. it backs up more quickly when the main drain is already loaded. That would eliminate the wc as the source of the problem, directing your attention to the main drain. If so, time for the Rotor-rooter dude.
BTW, I'm not a plumber either.
well i hate to say it but i think you have a toliet removal in your near future. everyone here has hit it on the head [pun not intended]if the rest of the house is flowing ,you need to pull the toliet and star digging around in the trap for a object stuck. i had one a while back i pulled looked all around cleaned the drain while it was off ,put it back, same thing sometimes it's ok sometimes not. got p.o. pulled it the second time took it out in the front yard and sledge hammered it. down in the trap was one of those plastic blue deodorizers that had got wedged and i just couldn't find it. new toliet-works like new! while you have the toliet removed you might throw a hose in the drain and let the water run just to make sure it's flowing well. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Pulling the stool for a detailed inspection isn't a big deal just get a new wax ring for the re-install. If you are concerned about the odor, a dab of Vick's Vapor Rub beneath your nostrils takes care of that (learned that one from a cop).
Sometimes a bad seal between the stool and the flange can reduce flush efficiency, kinda like sipping from a cracked straw.
Good Luck
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Let's see.
Toilet has been in and working for 19 years, started this problem this summer.
No leaks around the toilet base.
Another toilet on other side of wall (going to same main pipe) works fine.
Doesn't stop up everytime, only the 10th or 15th.
Only happens to my wife, not me, and she knows not to put anything into toilet.
We don't use any cleaners (due to pets).
Auger always works near end of length, leading me to think it's just a bit further down.
Over the years have cleaned out our toilets for different reasons (pens, paper towels, turds, etc.) so this ones got me.
I'll try checking the toilet, and the plastic pipe trick on a longer snake first.
Then remove it if necessary (I really hate that part).
If anyone has any extra thoughts from the above info, let me know.
Thanks all.
Jeff
Pulling the toilet is a PITA, but not rocket science, and if you plan it right it needn't be a major project.Ideally pick a nice day (ie, wait 5-6 months, if you live around here), so you can take the bowl outside to muck with it. Otherwise clear some space in an unfinished basement or the garage where you can upturn the thing. Failing that, spread plastic in an adjacent room, with newspapers on top.I prefer, especially if things are tight, to remove the tank from the bowl before removing the bowl. Not so necessary if you have a helper, but really helps a lot if you work alone. Upending the bowl is a lot easier with the tank off as well.Have new wax ring and replacement bolts for tank and flange before you start. (You may not need the tank bolts, but it's good to have them in case you have to hacksaw a stubborn bolt.) Make sure all the hardware is brass or stainless.Also have a piece of plywood or some such about 5x5", or an appropriately-sized test plug. Have some old towels and a roughly 4x4' piece of plastic for the bathroom floor (but don't spread it until you need it). A small (eg, ice cream) bucket is also handy, and a larger bucket to dump the small one into. Eventually you'll need a scraper (maybe 3" putty knife, and an old screwdriver for corners), and some wrenches. And about a half a roll of paper towels.Shut off water. Flush/dip out most of the water. Then use a shop vac to get out the rest. If you don't have a shop vac use a large sponge. (There will still be a small amount of water remaining in the rim of the bowl, in most cases.) If quarters are tight, and especially if you don't have a helper, also get a couple of 2x4s maybe 3 feet long.Disconnect water at tank. Expect some dripping, and have the towels and bucket handy. Disconnect bolts at tank. Spread plastic, remove tank, place on plastic. (Upside down is most stable.) If quarters are tight, remove the tank, once drained a bit, to the other room. Disconnect bowl bolts, rock bowl to loosen wax ring. Lift straight up, set on plastic. Place 5x5" plywood over drain. (Helps prevent odors and also keeps anything from falling in there.)Tilt the bowl backwards. Any water in the rim will run towards the back, either in the bowl or in the opening where the tank connects. Sponge this out.Take bowl to other room/basement/outside. Place upside-down over plastic and scrape off the remnants of the wax ring.Now inspect the bowl. Often the offending object will be caught right at the outlet. Otherwise, use a flashlight to inspect in as far as possible. If you don't find anything, push a wire through the gooseneck and use that to pull a large rag or some such through -- something big enough to hang up on any obstruction.When you're done, and if you're outside or in a wetable area in the basement, you might as well turn a hose on the bowl, and get it clean all over.Now go back to the bathroom and remove the piece of plywood. Scrape away all the wax there, and inspect the area for leakage. (Clean up the area under the toilet while you're at it.) Also inspect the flange for damage. (I did encouner one toilet where the flange had broken and the toilet had slipped backwards about 2", causing clogs without any obvious leakage.)If everything seems OK, bring the bowl in, set it upside down, and apply the new wax ring. Based on flange height, pick the appropriate ring -- standard reenforced if the flange is flush to 3/8" proud, long reenforced if the flange is below flush with floor, non-reenforced if the flange is more than 3/8" proud. (This will vary a little depending on the brand of toilet.) In the first two cases use a flange with built-in horn.Place new bowl bolts in the flange.If you don't have a helper, set the two 2x4s on edge, either side of the flange, spaced so the bowl will rest nicely on them. Set the bowl atop these, and then slide the bowl around until it's centered properly over the flange (you have to squat down there and look).[Oops! Sitting in the contemplation seat, I realized that the way I do it is to put the 2x4s in front and back of the flange, vs on the sides. And they only need to be about 16" long.]Tilt one 2x4 flat, and as you do, guide the bolt on that side into the hole in the bowl base. Tilt the other 2x4 flat the same way. Now remove both 2x4s, allowing the bowl to settle onto the wax ring. If things are right the bowl will sit about 1/4-1/2" off the floor until you put some weight on it to compress the ring. Install washers and nuts.Check the bowl for rocking. It should sit solidly on the floor all around AND NOT ROCK AT ALL. If it shows any tendency to rock, use plastic wedges under the unit (in back, if possible) to shim it up. Secure the wedges with a small dab of bathtub caulk.Reinstall and reconnect tank.Test thoroughly (and further check for rocking) before you shorten the bowl bolts (either hacksaw off or snap off at "perforation").
Edited 12/19/2004 10:35 am ET by DanH
And the only thing to add is it took longer to type that than it does to actually pull the toilet.:)
whew, i'm exhausted after reading that and i was just about to head out the door for Vermont to help cracking open a beer instead sorry Jeff!
if it's not a water saver, might just replace it and save on sewage fees, or save the septic
Ed
Your always welcome.
Plumbing (for some unknown reason) is the one job I hate doing.
Dan and crew, thanks for the explanation.
I hate replacing the toilets with new as these are pretty good ones.
Here in Vermont it's well and septic.
Jeff
Did I mention I really hate plumbing.
Jeff
Jeff-
surprised you don't have an outhouse up there don't you know how to cut one of those "moon" patterns into a door?
Ed
I have a neighbor up the road with an outhouse.
I can cut a moon quicker then I want to tackle removing the toilet.
Jeff
You just divulged the problem. Women tend to use too much paper. I have had this experience in my household.
Another tip- I performed an experiment in front of wife & kids. We tested Scottpaper against other "soft" brands by putting one square of each into a basin of still water. The Scottpaper disintegrates almost instantly, while the "soft" paper gets wet and hangs around.
I have an on-site septic, will only use Scottpaper. Try putting the girls on a "4 square" Scottpaper ration, see if that helps.
Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
http://www.toiletology.com/toc.shtml
Billy
Here is a thought, wheather it is good or bad,,,,, Fill 5 gallon bucket, apprx 3/4 full, with water, breath, relax, then, as high as you can hold the bucket, lift, and dump into toilet bowl, as quickly as you can. At that exact moment in Time, you will know if your clog is in your toilet bowl. For if the bowl is clear, well then the water will go, it is actually kind of interesting way of trouble shooting. Note; if you have a casette tape, etc, that is "stuck", well then pull the toilet. While you have the toilet out and tank, I would strongly recommend replacing the the Flush valve, complete with new flapper( Big Orange). Enjoy,, Jim J