I was having new sewer and water put in. My wife asked the plumber (who also installed the fixtures for the new bathroom) if he should rod out our wall-hung toilet because it clogs up when certain people use it.
Note: Robic bacteria will clean out the toilet and let it flush easily.
Plumber said the toilet shoud be replaced, as the toilet starts to get old and things start sticking. This is a 15 year old American Standard. My BS alarm started ringing loudly. WHAT could go wrong with a toilet? I have seen 50 year old toilets that work fine.
For the record, we don’t use chemical “unstopping” materials, nor do we use any of the “automatic” cleaners.
Replies
BS. It may be that the toilet is a poor design, or that there's something stuck in the gooseneck, but they don't wear out.
"because it clogs up when certain people use it"
Gee, I wonder why? Duh!
Will Rogers
Now I've only been plumbing for about 6 yrs., and I've been around toilets alot longer.
I believe that your plumber is looking for a little extra green in his pocket. Hard times may be affecting his morals some.
If it don't leak, and you like it, it should be re-buildable, and cheaper than a new one.
Yet I've never played with a wall mount toilet, so I could be overlooking something.
Also maybe post a clever warning sign above toilet.
One I've seen over a few, "We aim to please! Will you aim too, please?"
>>...sign above toilet.<<
The shores of Chesapeake Bay are littered with restaurants specializing in steamed crabs (some are more special than others). Distinctions are drawn between the Eastern and western shores of the bay
Sign in women's room in one crab house:
"Go ahead ladies, have a seat, Eastern Shore crabs can jump ten feet!"
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
the limerick growing up was ...
"Do you no good
to sit on the seat,
Narragansett Bay crabs jump fifteen feet"Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
This may sound bogus but I tend to believe your plumber. About two years ago, I did some bathroom repairs in a house built in 1973, the only water source since the home was limited to a well. The water was very hard, high calcium, and we had a problem with flushing the toilets during the last 5 to 10 years and thought it was because the septic tank wasn't "digesting" properly. My parents used bags of so called "enzymes" etc and the usual anti-clog cleaning supplies (bad idea so my warning to all is not to use them when your on septic system)and none of their efforts really solved the problem. Before selling the place, I retro fitted 2 out of 3 bathrooms (the two problem toilet units) with new Toto toilets and took the old toilets apart using a hammer and safety glasses. In both the old problem toilets, the back side of the "S" trap was partially closed off by heavy deposits of material that looks like thick calcium deposits inside the porcelain neck. The diameter of the trapway was reduced by about half of what a new toilet should be, clear inside diameter was 1 1/2 inches at best maybe less, it looked like a severe case of artery disease (I've seen pictures but never actually observed it first hand). Because of their isolated location within the toilet trap, I can't imagine any way to clean out or remove these deposits without breaking the toilet itself.
After breaking a hole in the side of the toilet neck/trap, I attempted to chip off the deposits with a chisel and hammer and IMHO I'd say there is no way that they could possibly be cleaned or removed with just normal cleaning supplies. Perhaps, if you were to turn the water source off and flush, drain the toilet trap then pour in a solution of Muriatic acid (HCl) and let sit for several hours, maybe that would do it but maybe not. The use of Muriatic acid on a regular basis might prevent such deposit buildup first place but again, this is terrible on the septic system and environmentally, it's a big loser.
If you don't want to use chemicals, good idea by the way, then I suggest you have the toilet removed and check for similar calcium deposits in the back of the toilet trap way. My bet is that your problem is very similar to what mine was. You could buy a new toilet and that would probably fix it ...get a ToTo toilet, they're the bees knees!
woodway:Agree with you, but I'll add a modified way to clean the toilet.
Remove the toilet, plug the trap outlet, fill all the way to the top with caustic cleaner and let it sit for a couple of hours, dump the soulution in a safe place, (not down the sewer line).
This may work, but is it worth the effort? that has to be decided on an individual basis.
"If all else fails, read the directions"
That might work too but I'm a little skeptic regarding the caustic cleaner. These calcium deposits aren't likely to be effected by caustic (basic cleaner...Ph wise I mean) where Muriatic acid will, given a little time and concentration. I tried the Muriatic soak on small piece of my porcelain, that I broke off with some calcium on it, and it seemed to work but it took quite a bit of time with mild scrubbing and a repeat HCL soak before it dissolved completely. I'm sure the regular maintenance washing/flushing with HCl would stop the build up but the environmental damage is not worth it IMHO. There's a toilet bowl cleaner on the market that contains HCl (corrosive) called Lime-A-Way Toilet Bowl Cleaner, that would prevent calcium build up when used on a regular basis. Though I feel hypocritical, I use it after draining the bowl then pouring in about a quarter cup and let it sit, it's not all that cool in an environmental sense. Then again, I'm willing to make a small violation of my conscience to keep my bowl clean (de-calcified).
I was using caustic in a generic way, I know of a few substances that will work, but I am loath to put them on the forum due to the extreme safety issue that a lot of people refuse to abide to.
"If all else fails, read the directions"
The caustic stuff scares me more then does the acidic stuff. Draino granules for instance, that stuff should not be allowed because of the danger it poses to both the person using it and the environment.
The acid you use reacts with the calcium and ends up as neutral. I bet you drive a Prius
Close but no cigar...Toyota Tacoma. Everyone, just about, at work drove them and when we were on a job site someone remarked that he thought the Taliban had arrived. Done really know about neutral though, probably not 7 that's for sure.
Edited 7/19/2009 2:27 pm by woodway
"I am loath to put them on the forum due to the extreme safety issue that a lot of people refuse to abide to."Pffft! Us?! :)TFB (Bill)
I am under strict orders not to reveal classified information ;-)
"If all else fails, read the directions"
We're on well too and have a problem with Iron bacteria. I have to pull the toilet every couple of years to clean the out scales that build up in the trap and I can't get them all so it gets progressively worse.Soaking the trap in muriatic etches it and the buildup now gets worse faster.I'd replace it but the colour is no longer made and I'm not quite ready to yard out the matching tub and lav.
Edited 7/18/2009 12:46 am by observer
Yep, I believe it.
I've got the same buildup in one of my toilets, funny though the other toilet is fine. I have chipped off what I could, about an 1/8 inch thick in some places. I did this after the toilet started clogging, not flushing. Man that stuff stunk.
I can buy into the pee theory too, but also our jet holes under the rim clog easily too. No pee gets there.
As far as mercy flushes go, I just hold the lever down on the toilet, no thanks low flow. I hold that valve open and as long as their is no backup the flush is fine. Heck with the environment.
Webby
Edited 7/18/2009 7:54 pm ET by webby
Edited 7/18/2009 8:02 pm ET by webby
Should you, by chance, be in the market for a new water closet check out TOTO's fine products. Trapway is significantly larger and actual bowl shape engineered for 1 1/2 gal flush ...significant improvements all around. No, I don't sell them!
i used to spec nothing but Toto... now i use the Am Std "Champion".... beats the Toto flatMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'll have to check them out...what's the advantage?After reading your post I Googled and got this:
http://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/42893.html Nice comparison ---thanksI'm not sure with all those comments that the AS is such a good idea, what is your experience and why do you like them. Especially after reading the review I posted from the "terrylove" site?Edited 7/19/2009 2:31 pm by woodway
Edited 7/19/2009 2:37 pm by woodway
what can i say ?
i notice the comments are from 2005... i think i started using them bout '07
i love the clunk noise.. probably installed at least 3 and have another one sitting in the garage to swap out for a 1985 kohler in the guest room
haven't seen any leaksMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I like that one, ever since I saw them flush about a dozen golfballs down one of them in a factory test spot on this old house.Webby
Thanks I will check them out.Webby
see the terry love site again...I'm not finished reading it all so I'll hold my optimism off awhile. My opinion of Toto is still strongly on the approval side till I hear more.Check this out too http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htmAlso, here's a little discussion board where Terry the Plumber does a little one on one with both toilets...Toto wins! http://www.terrylove.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-39.htmlActually, come to think about it, I do have one BAD thing to say about Toto...their "soft close" seat is not exactly a stand out example of superior engineering. I experience lots of problems after a year or two with the seat hinge coming apart...not cool especially when your caught "defenseless" so to speak. I replaced with "Mayfair" soft close and it's removable for cleaning too! So far it's doing well. Edited 7/19/2009 2:43 pm by woodwayEdited 7/19/2009 2:49 pm by woodway
Edited 7/19/2009 3:02 pm by woodway
If the toilet works reasonably well most of the time, save your money. Any toilet can plug if overloaded. (Give it a "mercy flush" after the the first deposit--sorry about the graphic language, but, hey, we're talking toilets after all.)
However, woodway has a point. The mineral deposits are possible because of the affinity of mineral salts in pee for the unglazed pottery of the potty's trap. You see this commonly in a household with several boys--they take a quick pee and out the door without flushing, so the trap doesn't get properly flushed nor the pee diluted.
Edit: The BT word police wouldn't let me use the root word for urinal, so I was forced to fall back on "pee".
Edited 7/17/2009 3:56 pm ET by rdesigns
"mercy flush".... hahaha...
Don't know about the Pee thing but your right about the unglazed porcelain. I checked the new ToTo's and the glazing is fairly good down into the trap but as soon as the trap begins it's "up turn" then the glazing stops and what's left is just the native ceramic fired clay, it's surface is not as smooth as the glazed porcelain. The rougher surface would supply a good "starting point" for calcium deposition. The #### U*R*I*N*E theory may be right since once used the bowl water changes Ph slightly and that might cause, or increase, the precipitation of calcium salts onto the rougher surfaces. That's just a guess on my part.Edited 7/17/2009 4:27 pm by woodway
Edited 7/17/2009 4:28 pm by woodway
It's fairly common for toilets in hard water areas to develop calcium deposits in the jets around the edge of the bowl and sometimes the jet (if present) at the bottom front of the bowl. These can be removed with a muratic acid treatment. I suppose the same deposits can build up in the gooseneck, but it's rarer.In commercial installations oxylate deposits will often build (after a decade or two) up in the pipes draining urinals, though they'd be quite unlikely to occur in a regular toilet drain, either commercial or residential. Oxylate is essentially insoluble, and affected plumbing must be replaced.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Thanks for the advice.I hadn't thought about calcium deposits in the unglazed area. I might try some of the calcium removal agents; we have a POTW, and a little pH adjustment shouldn't affect them much.I might also try a short bit of rodding in case something is caught by the bends.
It's not unusual for something like a hairbrush or a child's toy to fall in the toilet and get lodged in the gooseneck. Impossible to see, and often impossible to get out.In one case I found a long lump of hardened BM stuck in the gooseneck -- must have been there for months if not years.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
BM?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=enq=define:bm&ei=iLxhSuiINcqBtgeH6vn5Dw&sa=Xoi=glossary_definition&ct=title
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Oh.... right.
if you have high mineral content water the jet holes under the rim of the toilet can clog and the swirl action slow down
sometimes you can rod them out with a coat hanger....but yes the internal chambers of toilets can clog with age ..... just like your arteries
it is easier to buy a new toilet than new arteries
BS alarm is going off . Damn Ive gotta get outta here. Sombody turn it off !
Zinc cromate will unstop the ports used to flush fresh water into the commode. And a wire coat hanger and maybe a little pole brush. You have to now how to do that but it will break it up and then rout.
Its on the supply end or the other end. Normally after a sewer line has been routed thats the next step. I bought a couple commodes before I learned that. I spent a day the first time on the problem.
Proper venting could be an issue but its doubtful since they are trunk line vented. Thats never been the problem on a commode for me . Sinks by the dozens but never a commode here and I do a lot of it .
Everything wears out. The glazing will eventially wear thin, then wear off completely. 15 years for a cheap builders grade toilet sounds about right. Add in a possible poor design from the start and there you go. Might be BS, might be the truth. The fact that it clogs from time to time lends credence. Vic
We replaced one toilet as part of a remodel. On the old one, lime had built up to the point that the flush wasn't working properly - there was a hole down at the bottom of the bowl, facing the trap, that was supposed to have a jet of water to start the flush, and it was completely plugged. I thought about how to ream it out, but got defeated.
Just as well: the new one is more attractive, flushes like a dream, and uses 1.6 gallons or less of water, instead of the old one's 3.5.
Still, those wall hung toilets are pricy; if you had a similar problem, it'd be worth clearing out any lime buildup.
And I concur: the mechanisms are simple on just about all toilets, and replacing the mechanism is way cheaper than replacing the toilet.