Hello all,
I am posting this question for my sister. She has a long time problem with the toilets in her house. The toilets constantly get stopped up. Since she has four kids, we sort of blamed the problem on them either flushing what ought not be flushed or using too much toilet paper or not eating enough roughage. Her kids all now know how to use a plunger. It was bad enough that I thinkmy sister had a plumber replace one of the toilets (one of the low profile $600 kohler jobs) with a better flushing toilet. Nothing works. This is an older house that has been remodeled and then had a second floor added on as well.
Anyhow, the kids are older and I do not think they flush toys down the toilet anymore (if they ever did…).
The latest toilet episode starts off with the toilet in the basement plugging up. We plunged the heck out of it and eventually, it was unstopped. (This toilet is at one end of the house.)
Later the same day, the toilet in one of the new upstairs bathrooms (at the other end of the house) is stopped up. Thank god there is nothing but water in this toilet. The water level is up to the rim. No amount of plunging will unstop thgis toilet. Eventually, the level of the water in the bowl goes down. So I flush the toilet to see if it magically cured itself. Nope. We flush some magic toilet paper cellulose disolving enzyme and let the toilet sit for a while. This time I watch the toilet for a long while and I see the level dropping and it continues to drop until the water level goes to the level of the trap and then gurgles for a few seconds and then the water in the bowl fills to a normal level. This is repeated several times.
There are two bathrooms upstairs. They are back to back. The toilet that is in the second bathroom works just fine. For now…
So, my sister leaves town for the weekend and when she returns, the second toilet that was working is now doing the same thing. Toilet fills up to the rim and the water level drops to below the level of the trap, gurgles a bit and then fills to a normal level. It takes about 45 seconds for this to occur.
My sister has called the plumber to help unstop the same toilet before. He removed the toilet and snaked the drain and he claimed that there was nothing to be found. The toilet did work afterwards.
The sinks and shower drains in the two upstairs bathrooms seem to work fine. There are no Air Admitance Valves to be seen, so I thought all the vents went through the roof. However, I do not see any vent pipes directly over the two bathrooms. I guess the venting is tied into another vent pipe.
Based on the wierd behavior of the water in the toilet, can anyone please shed some light on the cause of the problem.
Thanks,
Flushless In St. Louis
Replies
>>>My sister has called the plumber to help unstop the same toilet before. He removed the toilet and snaked the drain and he claimed that there was nothing to be found. The toilet did work afterwards.
This could be a key point. "It did work afterwards". Perhaps the snaking loosened some settled solids before an up-sloped section of the sewage system, thereby offering a temporary fix. Do you have a good understanding of the pipe layout? An up-sloped section could cause this problem.
Good luck.
Scott.
Thanks for the reply. I do not know the exact plumbing layout, but there seems to be four "zones" within the house.
At one end of the houes is a first floor bathroom and kitchen and laundry room. The waste pipes connect together to a cast iron vertical pipe and it goes down into the basement slab. There is a cleanout on the vertical cast iron pipe.
At the same end of the house is a basement bathroom. (the original clogged toilet). I do not see where the waste lines go to. They must be buried in the slab.
At the other end of the house is the master bath. All the waste pipes connect together and they go to a main vertical pipe which goes directly into the slab.
The two second floor bathrooms are at this end of the house The waste pipes connect together to a vertical 3-4" pipe to the basement. There is also a first floor bath and its waste pipes connect together to a PVC pipe and then they drop vertically into the basement. The second and first floor bathrooms vertical pipes are connected via a wye. Then the vertical pipe goes directly into the basement slab as well. There is a cleanout on each vertical pipe prior to the wye.
The toilets are of various vintages. They now have one old American Standard, they have two low profile one piece American Standard and they have three 1.6 gallon Kohlers. I am not sure if any of these toilets are clog free or if any of them are more prone to clogging.
I do not see any of the horizontal runs. They are all covered with drywall or are in the slab.
The house is in an existing neighborhood. It is on city sewer. There are alot of mature trees. Roto rooter sound like a possibility.
Thanks,
Flushless in St. Louis
Edited 10/17/2005 8:03 am by 123456
What is the outlet of the DWV pipes in this house--city sewers or private septic tank?
If it were just one toilet or two toilets on the same branch line, I would suspect it to be the toilet or branch line in question, but according to your story it's all the toilets in the house, though not the shower and sink drains.
This makes me think it could be the main waste line, or what it feeds into. Toilets put more water through a waste line in a shorter time span than anything else in the system. If there's a partial blockage on the main waste line, or if the septic tank is full and isn't draining into the weeping field for some reason, a toilet could easily overload this and require that 45-second delay you mentioned before draining to trap level.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
It's rare for the drain lines to be plugged, and when they are it's usually the main drain so you really know about it (downstairs toilet overflows when upstairs is flushed).
The most common problems are:
1) Overuse of TP, someone in need of more "roughage".
2) Toy, comb, etc, caught in the toilet "gooseneck". Will plunge clear but object remains caught and reclogs quickly.
3) Hard water causing jets in toilet bowl to lime up.
4) Use of in-tank ("blue water") toilet cleaners. These slightly increase the viscosity of the water and can totally upset the flow in some toilets.
5) Improper water level in tank.
These problems can vary considerably depending on the brand/style of toilet. Some are really poor to start with -- simply designed to clog, it would seem.
In theory a clogged/missing vent can cause clogging, but I've never seen it. If vent is clogged you should see water level in other nearby toilets "bobbling" up and down when one toilet is flushed, hear gurgling from sink when toilet is flushed, etc.
No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
Welcome to BT.
as posted above It's a bit odd for toilets to not work & everything else does. Unless you have seperate systems, like a grey water drain- <not supposed to have showers hooked up to those though>
Most common thing I have seen with what you're describing is something stuck in the trap of the toilet. Not completely blocked but enough to make it a slow drain.
If it was a venting problem it would usually girgle up in shower drain.
I am not a plumber, but, as someone mentioned, toilets put out a large voluime of waste right now, as opposed to sinks and showers that put a little water out gradually. If you fill a sink and drain it, or pour a bucket of water down a bath tub drain, does it drain easily? Have you had a drain cleaning service auger out the main line? There are usually cleanouts somewhere just outside the house where the house drain goes out. Since more than one toilet is having this problem, that may be the solution. Vent stack thing is a puzzle too. I guess I'd go the "roto-rooter" route first and if that doesn't work, try finding out what's going on with the vents.
May not be what you've got going on, but I've heard that Q-tips thrown down the toilet can cause similar problems. Most people think they are small enough not to matter but they are just the right size to get stuck in the toilet trap. One won't matter much, but after a few they build a little wall. A snake busts through the wall, but after one flush the wall reforms.
Again, I've not seen it happen but my plumbing instructor said they're the worst things to put down the toilet. And seemingly innocuous.