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bi> Hi; I’m attempting my first spec home after being in the deck building business for 5 years. Can any folks experienced in doing cedar shake roofing give me some quick tips on layout, installation, and the tools to do the job? The house is simple; a cape cod with a 2 1/2 car attached garage. On the front of the house there’s 3 small dormers. The roof pitch on the front of the house and the dormers are 10/12, while the pitch on the garage and the back of the house is 8/12. thanks!
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try the cedar bureau site "www.cedarbureau.org"
*Please be clear; if this is a Cape style, I bet dollars to donuts that you are talking about cedar shingles and not shakes. Application procedure for the two are different. Climate is also a factor in some. Where are you? Read from cedar bureau and post back with specific questions and info
*yes.... with your limited experience.. don't start out with a wood roof...use an architectural asphalt and save the wood for some other job....
*The requirements of the subdivision state that they have to be shakes,not shingles. Also, I'm located in Wisconsin. Climes go from humid mid-90 degree summers to sub zero winters. Thanks!
*That's similar to what I did in Colorado.First - Ice and water shield at least three feet beyond exterior wall so with a good overhang you're talking six feet up from eave.second - use thirty pound felt to dry in the rest.third - optional - place strapping 1x4 or 2x4 horizontally at ten inches on center(if you want a ten inch exposure) to create a cold roof which helps baffle temp gradients and prevent condensation, ice damns, etc.fourth - run 18" wide 30# felt such that the bottom of the course is where your shake butts will finish. Only run as much as yuo can install over each day so it doesn't blow off since you'll just be nailing this at the top of the piece, leaving the bottom loose to slide each shake up in under. This is called weaving. It is needed because shakes are heavy and with large enough slits that water can blow up in between them. The felt redirects the water back out on tip of shakes below it. You can also do it by running each course of shakes and then each course of paper but my way is much faster. I've laid as much as six squares in a day, hand nailing (though not over 6/12 pitch at that speed). Don't get disappointed if you only get one to three squares/day. The advantage of this system is that you can see the black bottom edge of the felt between the slits of the previous course to know where to place each shimngle without snapping chaulk lines for each course. You can sit in one place and run about 4-6 courses at a time.Now for nailing, the cedar institute has good drawings and advice, the key point being, do not nail too tight driving the head of the nail into the grain of the wood. That will cause the shake to split prematurely and fail you. You are looking for a roof, not a pile of kindling. You can use staples too if you want but they were never much faster for me.
*good techniques...but #3 i'd use Cedar Breather and it wouldn't be optional...
*I usew breather with shingles but not shakes, especially on such a steep pitch. Reason - shingles will wick lots of water through to the back. Split shakes shed water quickly and stay mostly dry on the back. They are heavy enough to not warp and twist. Nothing against it though. I just don't see it as needed.
*Jim, All good postings with one little note do not use galv. nails, use ONLY stainless steel nails. I've done more than a few new roofs and use SS nail and never had a shingle/shake come loose. I've also repaired many shingle/shake because the galv. reacts with the oil of cedar and the head of the nail rusts off, this will happen fast or slow depending on how much acid rain you get.I contacted the cedar bureau they also said depending on the acid rain that copper sometimes is a no-no. But like was posted before contact the Cedar People. Good Luck and take your time speed will come with time Bill D. Quality Wood Chips
*bill d.... don't sound like the Hot Dipped Galvanized i'm used to...lots of cedar... lots of salt air..100 years later and the galvanize is still there...there's "galvanized" and then there's "hot dipped galvanized"...the only reason to switch to SS. is because the gun nails are hard to find in true hot dipped galvanize
*true, I've hand nailed hundreds of squares with hot dipped and never saw a problem. Even now on the salt coast, it's just the electro plates that have trouble staining and rusting.
*Thanks for all the tips, they're definetly appreciated!! I've already checked out the Cedar Bureau website; very helpful. Last questions; I was planning on using plywood for roof sheathing. Is this acceptable? I heard that OSB was a no-no. Also, if I did do the 1x straps, would I just nail that right onto the plywood sheathing? Next question; is it o.k to walk on the shakes as long as I tread lightly,(told you; this is a first for me!). I was planning on wearing either a rubber hiking boot or my standard construction boots. Right now; the weather is starting to cool off; I'll be starting the roof in early Oct., and the temps will be in the 50's-mid 60's daytime and cooling down to the 40's in the evening...What other tools should I plan on having to work with the shakes? I have a roofing nailer, (Hitachi) and most hand/power tools. Will air tools work o.k. for nailing down the shakes, or should I hand nail them? Again, thanks for all the advice; it'll come in handy!!!Jim
*Mike , Piffen ..not the salt air it's the acid rain we have a bit of it here. that's why the cedar Rep. made me switch . And I just 6 m0. ago replaced a shake roof not but 12 years old (granted who ever put these on obviously (sp?) did NOT know what they were doing.Spacing and nailing in the wrong places,but still 75-80% of the shakes were loose.And am repairing another roof now where there are loose and badly fastened shakes. The shakes in both cases were not cared for; moss,fungus,debris from trees etc. On the roof I'm doing now I'll check to see whitch galv. were used. Still I like the SS I can walk away without worry(in this area).And on that note lunch is over and time to climb the ladder.Bill D. QWC
*OSB is ok if using strapping for a cold roof. Therre was recently a very active thread here arguing both sides of whether to use it on roofs. I prefer not to because it will sag and telegraph through asphjalt shingles. If hand nailing, you'll find it a little harder to start nails into, and one side can be quite slick. 1x4's should be nailed into the rafters as much as possible. You are working against wind uplift, as well as the fact that on a 10/12 you will probably be standing on them sometimes. We want you around to take up the torch for the next generation, so don't fall because of strapping/toeboards slipping out. (Happened to me once) From a practical standpoint, by the time you nail all those shakes on through the strapping, it'll be pretty well secured and a few of those nails will hit rafters.Never drive a nail through the valley metal.Battery operated circ saws are all the rage up there now.Be sure to study the drawings about spacing and nail placement, lapping shingle edges to cover nail heads.bill, I'm ceertianly not arguing against SS. Just never saw the need, living in cleaner places as I do. I guess it's getting to everywhere though.
*just use open strapping with no plywood, so you get max venting to the underside of the material. This is the common practice in British Columbia. Solid sheeting blocks ventilation
*but that doesn't allow the backup dryin felt or ice shield - Ok for pros but not so much for beginners
*Wish I lived in a cleaner air place than next to places like Baltimore,(cough,cough!).And the current roof repair was nailed with(drum roll please) electroplate galv. nails.As was stated before there are galv. nails and then there a galv. nails. Any of you guys use that stuff called Cedar Breather instead of 1x nailers? I've used it once before and it seems to allow air to circulate completely up and down the roof over solid sheathing. One more comment, there are shakes and there are tapered hand splits which is less corregated than "hand splits" that are flat sawn on the back . Some of the "Hand split" are so corregated (bumpy) that when they saw the back sides some of the low spots are quite thin. Then just in contrast some of the high bumps don't allow the next course to lie flat,I have to be very picky of what "hand split shakes" to use and which to throw away. Anybody find the same is true?Bill D. QWC
*with a shake roof, you have solid deck at the eaves for 4 to 6 feet. this carries the eave protection. with every course of shakes, 18" wide 30 lb felt covers the top 3" of the shake. The felt is woven between the courses. Properly graded shakes # 1 s are worth the price. Cedar breather mesh is more expensive than starting with open strapping. It is mainly used for reroofing on solid decks
*Thanks to everyone who replied. I'll take every piece of advice into consideration. It's nice to know that the experts are more than willing to take a few minutes of your time to give practical advice to a rookie!!! Thanks again, jim
*Your gratitude is a welcome blessing! I'm sure the rest of your life is not devoid of the marks and blessings of high charachter!
*Jim... Just take your time and enjoy! A good wood roof can sometimes compare to a wood puzzle,Have fun putting the peices together.And it will last almost a lifetime.Bill D. QWC
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bi> Hi; I'm attempting my first spec home after being in the deck building business for 5 years. Can any folks experienced in doing cedar shake roofing give me some quick tips on layout, installation, and the tools to do the job? The house is simple; a cape cod with a 2 1/2 car attached garage. On the front of the house there's 3 small dormers. The roof pitch on the front of the house and the dormers are 10/12, while the pitch on the garage and the back of the house is 8/12. thanks!