Replies

1. 
   seeyou | Apr 18, 2007 01:34am | #1

   I've done several TPO roofs (it's somewhat new to me). Don't have any real personal track record. It's not as DIY as EPDM because of the heat gun needed for the welds. I like it for certain applications.

   http://grantlogan.net/

2. 
   vintage1 | Apr 18, 2007 01:50am | #2

   Who mfg's the TPO?

   I have had some experience with some of them and I prefer PVC or KEE, specifically Sarnafil or FiberTite. 

   TPO's are stiffer and are harder to heat weld (IMO).  While they have gotten a lot of hype and interest in recent years, I think the jury is still out on their long term performance.

   One thing to look out for on single ply's is how long they have been mfg'd under that specific formula.  Several companies will tell you they have a 20+ year track record w/ their product, but in reality they have changed the formulation several times during that period so there isn't really 20 years of in-service use. 

   I think single ply membranes offer a lot of advantages, however they are highly dependent on the quality of installation.

   It appears that you are choosing from a wide variety of materials for your project.  What is your selection criteria?  How big is the roof?

3. 
   rpait | Apr 18, 2007 03:24am | #3

   tpo is designed for swimming pool style roofs, cap sheets are best for low slope roofs, tar and gravel will never last and the installer most likely will burn down your house in the process, 1/12 pitch with no existing ponding or other trouble you should use GAF's  base sheet with granular cap. If the decking isnt right you should install a taper system first or fix the decking.

   which beach is the front?

1. 
   vintage1 | Apr 18, 2007 03:43am | #4

   rpait,

   your post seems to be filled with absolutes.  "best, never, no existing. . ."

   Care to elaborate???

   What is a swimming pool type roof?  Do you think that TPO's are used only when the roof has insufficient slope to allow for adequate drainage?

   Why are cap sheets best for low slope roofs?

   Why do you think that a "tar and gravel" installer will burn down your house? 

   It might be true that hot asphalt in a kettle is not the safest method available but I don't know of many fires on the roof due to "hot".  Usually the biggest danger is a poorly monitored kettle that results in a kettle fire on the ground, not the roof.  I will also say that a properly specified and applied BUR can potentially outlast any other roof system out there.

   I'm not trying to be adversarial, but I just read your post as the "end all, be all" of low slope roofing and I don't agree with/understand several of your statements.

1. 
   rpait | Apr 18, 2007 02:58pm | #5

   thats cool, I have definate "opinons" due to my 20 some years in residential roofing, siding and windows sales most recently with the Home Despot.

   I live in central florida near the space center and we have a huge transient contractor work force here. Im actually jealous of the northerners whose contractors pass down the business for generations and family names are renown for quality!

   Down here with the heat, salt, hurricanes etc Ive seen product performance over time and replaced many types of roofing due to age. Then theres the cost vs value factored by time on the market and how long its gonna last.

   that being said-

   a swimming pool style roof is the kind of flat roof that has four sides usually about a foot high, we have a lot of them and we use GAF Freedom TPO to seal these and it works great.

   when you put a base sheet down with a granular cap and make sure the seams are sealed this provides the best overall roofing material for low slope not flat. if its truley flat it needs a taper system to provide drainage. It has a relatively low cost, highly wind resistant and attractive.

   Our tar and gravel installers down here seem to prefer the torch down method. Kick around a 5 pound block of tar while you melt it with a giant propane torch? Ive seen churches, airforce base buildings, and homes burnt to the ground because the installers crew was careless. Home Depot burnt a house down in Orlando cause the torch caught sawdust on fire it burnt a trail to the house then burnt it down. Hilarious and not worth the chance on my property!

    

1. 
   vintage1 | Apr 18, 2007 04:48pm | #6

   Yeah, we all have opinions. 

   Personally, I wouldn't use a TPO.  I think they are hard to weld and I have concerns about whether or not you will be able to make repairs to them down the road.  Mfg's still toy with their formulations trying to figure these things out.  I'm not convinced that the stuff installed 5 years ago will be around in another 15-20.

   when you put a base sheet down with a granular cap and make sure the seams are sealed this provides the best overall roofing material for low slope not flat.

   I assume you are referring to a mod bit system, and I agree that a 2 ply system is a good choice for certain applicaitons.  But, I still challenge the assertion of "best overall".  There is no best roof,  each system has its own merits.  However, there is a "best" solution to every individual roof job. 

   You can install MB in cold adhesive, hot asphalt, or torch it down.  But based on your comments about the installers in your area, I would disqualify your "best overall" system because no one could install it properly.  

   Our tar and gravel installers down here seem to prefer the torch down method. Kick around a 5 pound block of tar while you melt it with a giant propane torch?

   I cannot even begin to understand how this would work.  These guys should be arrested for impersonating roofers.  There are so many things wrong with this, one cannot list them all.  Wood house+propane torch= fire. 

   When you said tar and gravel I thought you were referring to a 3 ply, asphalt, BUR installed by a competent qualified contractor, not some fly-by night idiot who has a pu and ladder. 

1. 
   rpait | Apr 19, 2007 03:50am | #7

   I still feel that mb with cold adhesive is "best overall" however its only worth 2cents! lol

2. 
   pgproject | Apr 19, 2007 10:09pm | #8

   Thanks for the responses- rpalt, since you seem to be experienced, let me give you more info so you can give your recommendation. To recap: house is beachfront, heavy wind, rain, salt air. pitch is 1/12. Most of the house is exposed redwood 4x6 beams, 24" o.c., with 1x6 t&g redwood decking. On top of this is at least one tar and gravel roof. Installed 10 years ago, all estimators say it's in good shape, but there is one area where no one can fix a persistent leak. Wife doesn't like the tar & gravel mostly because of the gravel constantly washing off into the gutters and surrounding ground, so we figure it's best to replace the roof. We want to add some insulation to the open beam area, so we began by looking at 'foam roof' systems. After some research, ruled that out, so instead we want to use 1 1/2" foam board insulation over the open beam areas under the new roof system. We found out about PVC (Duro-Last), but that's really expensive. One contractor suggested TPO, said it stays more flexible than PVC, doesn't get a 'chalky' over time.We also have bids for a 3-ply cap-sheet system. This is all really confusing. I like the idea of a TPO or PVC, but it seems all the local contractors are very experienced with tar and gravel or cap sheet, and the warrantys are 10 years for all the various systems. Another consideration is ease of future alterations and repairs. We'll probably want to add a skylight at some point.Your feedback is appreciated.

3. 
   rpait | Apr 20, 2007 02:39pm | #9

   the only system you mentioned thats tried and true is the 3 cap system. I obviously am not a fan of the tar and gravel but it probably is the least expensive and the pvc and tpo dont have the track record to say its great its not. I see alot of people going there because its the latest and greatest. I would want to see the flashing where your persistent leak is.

   you need to find some people in your area who have the same roof style but not tar and gravel. Find out what they used and how its performing. In Florida where I live majority are using the 2ply system.

   I am sure the tpo and or pvc systems will be installed correctly and provide years (10) of performance. I am also sure the 3 ply will perform same. (whatever the warranty is) most warranties dont include labor by the way.

   Skylights are an invitation for leaks, if you install one install a curb flashed unit at the time of the roof replacement.

   I would definately stay within the contractors expertise, no reason to experiment with your home.

   No one can make the choice for you, and its scary to think you could make a "wrong" choice. unfortunately you wont know its wrong until years from now!