Hello all:
I have recently put in 8 new Andersen double-hung windows in my home. This weekend I am planning to do the outside trim work around the windows, but not having done this before, I need some help.
There are various conditions around the outsides of the windows. Most of the windows are set in brick openings, attached to wooden grounds. Three of the windows are in a wooden-framed bay window.
I assume that to trim them out, I buy a couple of rolls of the metal that they sell for this, and rent myself a brake. I would appreciate any ‘how-to’ tips. Anything to watch out for? What products are better than others? Are the trim pieces attached with caulk? Nails? A combination of the two? Do I put flashing tape down first?
Thanks for any advice that you could give.
Musashi
-Groucho Marx
Replies
There is the option of using pine, or MDO, do the windows have brick mold attached?
What is the siding on the wood framed bay?
Is well-painted pine a reasonable solution? Would it not weather much faster than aluminum?
Sorry, but what is MDO, and what is brick mold?
Nothing is attached to the windows. Just the pine frames, with the nailing flange on the outside in some cases, and cleats used instead of the nailing flange in other cases.
The siding on the bay is aluminum.
ThanksOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
Are the windows aluminum clad? If they are I would hire someone to do the aluminum, and do it properly so as to every seam sheds water and looks perfect.
Pine when covered properly lasts for a very long time.
We usually pre-prime everything and then prime all the cut ends, making sure to rip drip edges on the bottom of the sills, and angling the sills to a 8 degree angle.
Brick mold is usually attached to windows, it is simply the trim that runs around the exterior of the window, a typical profile of the stuff looks like this. http://www.arcat.com/photos/extrutec/118201.jpg
They do make synthetic window trim, which I have never had the displeasure of working with (from what I have heard)
For a dripedge just two saw kerfs into the bottom of the window sill will work, as water likes to go downhill rather than uphill.
A few good coats of exterior paint and some good exterion caulk will keep things looking good and rot free.
MDO is a plywood meant for outdoor use, it has one good side which is meant to be painted and exposed to the elements. commonly used for soffits or porchs, where it is not exposed to direct water, but still outside.
Aluminum and Plastic or synthetic trim will last the longest but are harder to work with and harder to change the colour of should you want to paint the house.
I am sure finehomebuilding has articles written on this subject. Good luck. Keep us posted on the finished product.
Thanks for your reply.
The windows are aluminum-clad. They already have the sill detail done. It sits just above (1/8 - 1/4") the existing stone sills in the masonry walls (I will just caulk this in), and not so neatly above the aluminum siding in the bay window.
Later today I will try to post a picture.
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
....the Andersen Windows are aluminum clad? What series are they?.View Image
400 series. I bought them about 2 years ago. If you need, I can look up the specifics - model #'s, etc.
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
400 series are vinyl-clad, aren't they? Permashield?
" It sits just above (1/8 - 1/4") the existing stone sills in the masonry walls (I will just caulk this in)"
You did flash them ... right?Jeff
Edited 11/13/2007 10:15 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
I have been handling them all this time thinking that they are aluminum. Somehow, the finished surface looks a lot like metal. I'll go outside later today and give them a scratch and see.
Flashing - I'm not sure what you mean. Right now, 5 of the 8 that I installed are sitting in brick openings. The wooden grounds (2x6's) that I installed in the openings are visible around the edges of the windows (outside the house), for about an inch or so. These sit back from the fronts of the windows around 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. All the cracks, etc. have been filled in with expanding foam.
The other three are in a similar situation, but are installed in an old wooden-framed bay. There is existing siding outside the bay.
I have my wooden trim pieces cut, primed, and painted in the basement, and am ready to install them. Should I try to put down window flashing tape first? There is not a whole lot of space there to lay it down in, and the uneveness of some of the foam sticking out here and there would also make it difficult. I was planning to simply put in my trim pieces with copious amounts of appropriately colored caulk all around them.
Should I be doing something else?
Thanks for the help.
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
Look at the installation videos on the Andersen website and consult with a pro - 'copious amounts of caulk' isn't the way.
Jeff
The video on their website shows a different window than mine. The one they show has a kerf or groove for the exterior covers, but mine don't. Also- there is nothing there about flashing.
There is an Andersen window distributo not too far from here, but I thought I might save myself a trip by trying Breaktime first.
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
There is a great deal there about flashing.
Jeff
Here is a screen capture from the Andersen installation video. The video shows them putting the exterior trim pieces right over this. I see the edge of the window, then some expanding foam, and then the existing framing.
In my installation I have a similar scenario (I'm sorry, but my own camera is on the fritz), but without the groove in the window to accept the pre-made trim pieces.
Am I missing something?
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
That's the replacement (insert) window video where the (assumed already flashed) frame stays in place. Is that what you have? Or do you have new windows with frames?
The video clip shows the caulked joint between an insert replacement and a remaining-in-place frame.
Jeff
Edited 11/14/2007 5:56 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
I have new, double-hung, tilt-wash windows with frame. Outside, however, it looks a lot like the video: The window frame, surrounded by foam filler, then about an inch or so of 2 x 6 peeking out from behind the facing brick. The whole window unit is inset in the wall by about a brick thickness (4" or so). (In other words, the plane of the window is set back from the plane of the front of the house.)
In the video, it looks like they are covering the existing space with their pre-made plastic strips. Would it be so different if I were to cover mine with the pine moulding that I have milled to fit, primed, painted, and will caulk in place?
What else should I be doing to waterproof things first?
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
Most pine that you could buy today for exterior trim will rot in 5 years. Bad idea. You still need to flash your windows and you need to trim the surrounds with a material that will last, like backprimed cedar or other rot-resistant wood, especially since it will be in contact with masonry. You could use Azek brick mold too.
Did you read the installation guide? Here it is in case you didn't - http://www.andersenwindows.com/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2FpdfContent-Disposition%3A+inline%3B+filename%3D0005134.pdf%3B&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1186928299650&ssbinary=true Note where it says "Installation flanges do not take the place of flashing" and "flanges on the unit alone will not properly flash and seal the window. Follow these instructions carefully."
If you didn't flash the sills at a minimum, for instance, you'll have to remove the windows and start over. This will be somewhat complicated by the use of expanding foam, which (unless a special minimally-expanding type) shouldn't be used along window frames anyway.
Jeff
Edited 11/14/2007 10:35 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
I think it depends alot on the climate, but let's be honest I think Pine lasts longer than that when properly painted and sealed with a few coats of paint. I think in five years it will need a sand and a coat of paint.
What most people will buy is #2 pine which will rot in five years. Happening all over. Especially in a near-marine environment like Brooklyn.
Here's a good example - http://www.gpsinformation.org/homerepair/woodtrim.htm You might take note of the two reasons for this failure: pine trim and NO flashing.
Jeff
Edited 11/14/2007 10:41 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Even made a pretty picture for you -
Upon further consideration, I realize that it would make a lot more sense for me to work with something that I have a lot of experience with (milling wood to fit) than with something I have no experience with (sheets of aluminum and a brake).
So pine trim it is.
Thanks for the help and advice.
MusashiOutside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
hey glad i could help.
If you are looking for methods of attaching it we usually nail it on with brads and then 3" screws filled with autobody filler and finish coats of paint. They are excellent windows you have chosen so might as well do them justice.
Cladding windows can be tricky getting a professional result for a first timer. I cover the sills first, bending up the sides and face of the casing legs. On the horns of the sill, I bend the bottom, then face and then top. Keep thinking mother nature and gravity. Start from the bottom and lap accordingly working your way to the top. Sills, legs, heads. I try to avoid nailing through the face of the aluminum. I caulk with DAP Dynaflex 230.
Some guys hate it, but I enjoy working with the brake. Here is a angle bay I trimmed last year. Everything in white was made from 24'' x 50' flat stock coils.
Sorry for the blurriness of the photo.