Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 16, 2002 06:35am | #1

   I still look for real TSP. The only thing it is safer for is the fishies. Too much phosphate in runoff water will cause algae blooms and unbalance the ecosystem underwater. I's not dangerous for you in the first place so it can't be safer for you to eliminate it from an effective product. It is potentially less safe for washing down lead painted surfaces because the phosphate chemically binds with the loose lead to bind it up.

   You should wear rubber gloves because it is mildly abrasive.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/15/2002 11:37:18 PM ET by piffin

1. 
   ahneedhelp | Oct 16, 2002 03:14pm | #3

   Thank-you, Piffin/Mongo -

   As always, very helpful with your prompt replies.

   To make sure I understand....

   It is probably a good idea to follow up with a damp sponge to wipe off the TSP afterwards ? (Package says not necessary but I am not convinced.)

   And the TSP shouldn't be just swirl applied but instead the walls/ceilings should be wiped as if the walls are being cleaned ?

   My guess is since this is a chemical, it is applied and then wiped off.

   If so, how thoroughly does it need to be wiped off ?

   (If it has to be wiped off, I would use a sponge and rinse it frequently.)

   Too many questions but it's all in the technique and I want to do it right the first time.

   The kitchen in particular needs this done and I've never had to wipe/clean an entire kitchen wall/ceiling.

   Thanks for your help,

   Alan

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 16, 2002 03:36pm | #4

   Yes,

   Scrub with a rag. The particles are microscopically giving a mechanical scrub job to etch the surface and remove fine gunk - smoke, soot, oxidixed paint, etc. and to bind with any loose lead. Then rinse thorooughly to be sure you have reoved it instead of just moving it around..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   ahneedhelp | Oct 16, 2002 04:35pm | #5

   Thanks again, Piffin -

   My shoulders, neck and elbows are beginning to ache, and it ain't because it's been drizzling outside.

   One last post and I'm off the subject -

   Is this stuff fumey ?

   I expect an odor but want to make sure if I need to have fans/exhaust and wear a respirator.

   Gloves I will definitely wear as suggested.

   And I am guessing the powder vs. liquid is mainly about convenience unless the powder form offers other advantages besides mix strength and cheaper price.

   Another run to the store soon....

   Alan

1. 
   Mongo | Oct 16, 2002 05:09pm | #6

   For a kitchen, I'd advocate TSP.

   You certainly want to get rid of any minute accumulations of grease/grime.

   I really don't think a respirator or mask is neccessary, but opened windows will help with a bit of air circulation. Gloves? Think of the bare-handed washing technique as a chance to get all the grime out from under your fingernails while you wash the walls...and look on the bright side...you may dissolve your fingerprints right off your fingertips, preparing yourself for life as a ne'er-do-well.<g>

   Seriously, take whatever precautions you choose, but all you really have to do is follow the directions on the box. Do wear goggles when washing overhead, and yes...you shoulders will get a workout.

2. 
   ahneedhelp | Oct 16, 2002 05:55pm | #7

   Mongo -

   Thank you for the additional tips.

   My left hand fingertips lost their grip and are sensitive after handling car wax (Maguires) - applying and buffing.

   It is not a very pleasant thing and I'm afraid it is permanent.

   Even handling terry cloth bath towels requires a bit more grab because it slips on the fingertips. Fingerprints are still there but maybe sweat or oil glands are damaged ?

   Yes, goggles definitely.

   Michelangelo neck time...

   Alan

3. 
   rez | Oct 16, 2002 06:19pm | #8

   When you go to the store tell the clerk that you're painting and ask if they have any esp cleaner. "You mean TSP?" she says.  "I knew you were going to say that" I reply.  Works everytime. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar,

    the hills roll and the ...

4. 
   ahneedhelp | Oct 16, 2002 07:36pm | #10

   Rez -

   I'm not sure if I get the humor.....A bit dense today.

   Unless there is such thing as an ESP cleaner.

   Thinking again and I still don't get it.

   Duh.

   Alan

5. 
   Mongo | Oct 16, 2002 07:40pm | #11

   Strange...I had a feeling that you wouldn't understand his post...

   Gotta go shuffle the Tarot cards and see what I can make of it.

6. 
   rez | Oct 16, 2002 08:21pm | #15

   Ah- not worth the second thought. I stunk on the delivery. One of those 'guess you got to be there' routines.:o| Let the thunder crack and the waves roar,

    the hills roll and the ...

7. 
   ahneedhelp | Oct 17, 2002 02:33am | #17

   re - not worth the second thought. I stunk on the delivery.

   ------

   No big deal.

   Sometimes I will not get a joke even with the best of delivery :-(

   Alan

8. 
   Mooney | Oct 17, 2002 03:27am | #18

   I guess I might be a little late , but incase Im not ;

   You know those rough mitts used for washing a car with your hand ? Split one of those in half with a wall paper knife . Use a leather punch for holes in the out side , and sew it on with nylon twine, [on the left tool box under the frame hammer.]  .   Put it on the pole sander . Put the liguid in a sprayer .  Its not so tireing when you do it that way and you can cover a lot of wall or ceiling. This is standard practice with my rentals. Also , it makes a good wax remover , or applicater. I also put big scratch pads cut to fit on a pole sander.

   Tim Mooney

9. 
   RichMast | Oct 17, 2002 05:38am | #19

   Definitely don't skimp on the rinsing.  I have had some paint failures which at least I blamed on tsp residue, but couldn't prove it.   I have heard similar stories from others.  I remember reading somewhere that the reason tsp wasn't recommended for inside uses was because of the difficulty in rinsing adequately.  I haven't had a problem any time I used lots of rinse water.  I just use a sponge, keep dipping in fresh water, and let it run down the wall.  I use tsp on any wall surface that I paint.  The results are worth it.

   Hope this helps.  Rich.

10. 
    user-178115 | Oct 16, 2002 09:42pm | #16

    ROAR!!! Got to try that next time...

    Regards,

    Rework

11. 
    Piffin | Oct 16, 2002 06:50pm | #9

    No fumes. It's totally inert, as far as I know and understand. My wife spent a week once with me washing down walls and woodwork in prep for a paint job. She found her fingertips slowly "dissolving" as she put it. Mt more heavilly callused paws only got cleaner, but her skin did seem to wear down on the tips. Again, this was more mechanical than chemical. The etching action is microscopic so it seems chemical.

    This (phosphate) is one of those substances that environmentalists try to control to keep the total ecosystem better for everyone and that is good as long as we don't go overboard. Don't get the impression that everything they try to control is POISONOUS to you just because it's less than convenient for certain aquatic life forms. Phosphate exists in almost any handful of soil you can find. Disturbing soil can turn it loose to wash down into the waterways so silt fences and other measures are used to prevent erosion. Phosphates were removed from laundry detergents because a percentage was finding it's way into the surface water, not because it was dangerous to sleep in pajamas washed in them.

    Do wear goggles for overhead or where you might splash into your eyes so it doesn't dry them or etch the surface. As with any dust, it could be good to wear a dust mask when mixing the powder into water to avoid irritating your bronchii..

    Excellence is its own reward!

12. 
    ahneedhelp | Oct 16, 2002 07:53pm | #12

    Goggles, gloves, open windows, and no help from spouse unit.

    Gotta keep her finger tips in good working order.

    I do appreciate all the TSP suggestions/tips.

    Feeling very comfortable with the stuff.

    Alan

13. 
    Piffin | Oct 16, 2002 08:02pm | #13

    Good

    Now,

    Go forth and scrub, young man!.

    Excellence is its own reward!

14. 
    ahneedhelp | Oct 16, 2002 08:12pm | #14

    Leaving for the store soon.

    And thanks for the "young man" !

2. 
   Mongo | Oct 16, 2002 06:49am | #2

   Two of my painters (different subs) now do the same thing...they use DirtEx when washing painted drywall, and TSP when washing painted wood/molding/cabinetry.

   I thought it ironic that they separately came to the same conclusion.