When are mistakes in a truss unacceptable and what should we do about it?
We got 31 32′ 7over 4 scissor trusses and two dropped gable trusses today. The bottom chord on the scissor trusses was 3/4″ too long, half of the heel cuts were cut on a bevel (about 5 degrees), and the dropped trusses did not have a consistent drop and they were also the correct length but of course did not match the scissors.
We will use these trusses because we cannot wait and we will be able to deal with the deficiencies. We will probably not use this fabricator again but they are not the only ones that we have had trouble with. Are we expecting too much? We sure wouldn’t have this quality problem if we stick built but this building really does need trusses.
Replies
I'd say if you're going to use them, you don't have a whole lot of recourse. If you have to make modifications to make things work, then you should talk to the truss sales rep in advance to see about having your time paid for. Other than that, it's hard to bill back for something that looks bad, is a pain in the ####, but doesn't actually cost you anything.
And to answer your question about what's acceptable, those sound way outside of what's acceptable. All my company does right now is frame and I make a habit of bitching loud and long when the trusses we get suck. That's about all I can do about it since I'm not actually sourcing or purchasing them, but at least it helps me get my frustrations out and my daughter and my fish don't have to listen to me bellyache when I get home.
I have to agree that these were unacceptable,but I understand where you're at with having to use them.I would at least shim them at the heel so that the bearing is solid.
Truss manufacturers like to use as a selling point that because they are made in a factory under controlled conditions trusses are more consistent.I would certainly complain loud and long to the manufacturer's rep about this situation.Good luck with it.
Shell,
I tend to agree with the previous 2 posts as to the trusses being unacceptable. I would'nt give up on the idea of getting paid for your time and trouble[hopefully paid well]. I would try leaning on the supplier assuming you did'nt deal direct with the actual fabricator. Threaten to pull your business/ referrals or whatever else you've got to leverage them with. Then follow up on your threats if they don't get you some satisfaction. You should'nt have to put up with that kind of aggravation for nothing. Good luck.
Mark
In this case the supplier and fabricator are the same. We buy a fair amount of other materials from this supplier on the order of 50k per year. In the past they have credited us with fixing truss screw ups but the problems were a lot worse than these. These we can fix in less than 4 man-hours. It is more a problem of frustration with the quality. The supplier will hear about it and probably won't get our next truss orders but realistically we may be faced with the same problem at the other local competitor. Thanks for letting me blow off some steam.
Ask the expert. "Boss Hog"
Be well
Namaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Being in the truss business, I have some pretty strong opinions about this, as you might expect.
When you say "The bottom chord on the scissor trusses was 3/4" too long" - Did they come out to a point, or did they have a heel cut. Some fabricators don't cut a heel on scissors, but instead leave it a little long and bring it out to a "point". Depends on the type of saw they have, etc.
"half of the heel cuts were cut on a bevel (about 5 degrees)" That's not terribly uncommon. Sometimes the boards twist a bit as they hit the big blade that makes the cut. It could be that the blade is dull, or the saw and/or hold-downs are worn. Sometimes if the boards are twisted they just feed through the saw that way.
"the dropped trusses did not have a consistent drop" That's a quality control issue, most likely. It's also possible that they didn't build the scissor and the gables in the same jig. (Although it seems unlikely)
The one statement I couldn't agree on is "We sure wouldn't have this quality problem if we stick built but this building really does need trusses." The lumber you get isn't going to be any better than what the truss manufacturer buys. What exactly would have made it so much better?
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Actually, quality control is one of my pet peeves in the truss business. I'm really surprised it's as good as it is, given the circumstances of the industry.
What I mean by that is that the contractors don't really seem to want good quality. (Taken as a whole - There are always exceptions) Contractors want everything fast and cheap. All I hear on a daily basis is:
1. How fast can you get that quote done?
2. Why are they so expensive?
3. How fast can you get the trusses built?
These same 3 things are repeated over and over, day after day. Quality is rarely discussed. So consequently all the guys in the shop hear is that they should build the trusses as fast as possible. And keep in mind that these guys are often only making slightly more than the guys flipping hamburgers at McDonalds. Throw in a lot of turnover, too - They're not going to hang around a long time at those wages.
Since the company is being beat up on price, the lumber buyers are going to buy the cheapest lumber available. Truss designers are told to make the trusses as cheap as possible, and crank out the designs as fast as they can.
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As for your specific complaint - I gather that you bought these trusses directly from the manufacturer? If so, talk to them about it. Don't settle for a phone conversation - Insist that someone come out and actually look at them. And backcharge them for the time it takes to fix the problem. If they don't agree to the backcharge, just don't pay it. Sounds likely that it's a small enough amount that it wouldn't be worth filing a lein or taking you to court.
But don't look for the system to change unless there's a major paradigm shift regarding cheapness and quality. And I don'tlook for that to happen.
The California state bird is the middle finger. [Jay Leno]
"The one statement I couldn't agree on is "We sure wouldn't have this quality problem if we stick built but this building really does need trusses." The lumber you get isn't going to be any better than what the truss manufacturer buys. What exactly would have made it so much better? "
What would have made it better is that we would have picked through the pile of lumber and not used every piece no matter how poor. We would have made sure that the most critical spots (the eave and the ridge) were consistent with our pattern rafter. We would have used our straightest pieces for the outside two rafters which determine the straightness of the overhang. We would have checked the rafters for fit before we cut the bulk of the rafters.
I understand your points about the economics of the truss industry, but there is precious little I can do about that. Unfortunately for you and others in the business who are trying your best, the quality of the trusses that we get affects how much we want to use them. In this case trusses were the only practical solution. If that means that we have to hang off a ladder two stories up and eat sawdust while cutting a straight overhang and spend four hours hacking away at the gable trusses, that is what we will do. We probably can get reimbursed for our time and the supplier/manufacturer's rep was here on Friday. My partner talked with him and I'm sure he let him hear about it. It hasn't been the first time.
Incidentally, the trusses had a raised heel coming up square to the seat cut about 6 inches.
Maybe I didn't make the point well about the difference between trusses and stick framing. The trusses weren't great quality, and needed extra work. If you stick framed it, you would have had the extra work of sorting the lumber you used for the rafters and ceiling joists. Either way you have extra work.
I realize that there's very little you can do about the quality of the trusses - There's also very little I can do. I wasn't trying to make it sound like it was your fault - Just venting a bit about the problem.
Hope you next job goes better................Health care costs are outrageous. I went in for surgery and there was a two-pint minimum.
I just want to comment on "what is acceptable." I buy my truuses from the manufacturer. I get a drawing with each type truss that is signed by a PE. There are tollerences given for every dimension. Sometimes the tolerance is plus or minus 1/8", sometimes it's plus 1/4" minus 0". anything outside these tolerences is unacceptable and the truss company replaces them promptly ... usualy 2 to three days.
Boss Hog,
You do raise some good points regarding quality vs. price/delivery time. There is and old saying in business that goes something like ..... you canhave any two of the three, good, fast, or cheap but you can't have all three. Makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
Mark