Turning a porch into a 3 season room…?

I would like to turn my backyard porch into a 3 season room. I plan on having several windows and a couple skylights. A ceiling is also a possibility. Please give me some things to consider and whether or nor a home owner can take on such a project. Please view the photos and feel free to design something. Thanks and all info. is apppreciated.
Replies
That would be an ambitious project for most HO's. What did you have in mind for the floor? If you leave the deck boards, you're gonna get a nice collection of skeeters and other creatures. Generally, enclosing a deck is not a good option. You would be better off removing the deck and puittinmg in a real floor.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The biggest question that occurs to me in re: can a homeowner tackle this is--how much framing experience do you have. Because you've got a fairly serious roof framing job ahead of you.
The most logical way to blend this proposed new room into the rest of the house would be to take the new roof off the ridge of the house roof behind it. Are you ready to deal with that level of work?
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
It is a big project, but once I learn more I'll be fine. Just need to learn more about roofing. I assume I'd have to remove shingles to join the connecting roof or can I build over them? I have a few questions if someone wouldn't mind.1. What style roof?2. How long can this roof extend (ceiling joists) from old roof peak to new proposed wall and what would be the spaces between. 3. working around the chimney is another tuff spot. How would you go around that.Thanks and I'd appreciate any photos or articles and suggestions.
You would build a knee wall on top of the existing exterior wall, and extend rafters both ways from there ... one set toward the old ridge, and one set to form the new roof. 16" oc should work. And it would be best not to build on top of the old shingles.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'll have to devote more time to a complete answer than I have right now, but I'll get back to you later tonight or tomorrow.
The short answers are:
1. Yes, you can build right over the existing roof;
2. the new roof would be a basic shed roof because it'll be only one plane from the top of the existing roof;
3. the roof can extend as far as you like, but the longer the span, the beefier the framing will have to be;
4. to work around the chimney you just frame around it and then when you lay on the roofing material you have to install step flashing and counter flashing.
Gotta fly....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Dino, are you saying it's ok to leave the existing shingles in place and install new framing on top of them? I thought it was preferred to nail to the old sheathing with the shingles and paper cut back.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If I said that that's not what I meant, duh....
The best way is to nail direct to the framing...but it won't hurt much to nail through ½" sheathing into the framing. Use 4" spikes instead of 3½" commons.
But yeah, strip the roofing whereever your new rafters land.
But considering Mr. Turdgrass's attitude toward's Diesel's perfectly polite and reasonable observation about asking for free design work, that's the last bit of advice the goniff is gonna get outta me.
Man, where do these guys come from, anyway??
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
He does seem to be asking for a lot.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Not so much how much he's asking for; it's that attitude he has that says he think's he's entitled to it just because he asked....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
"Not so much how much he's asking for; it's that attitude he has that says he think's he's entitled to it just because he asked...."Those are your words not mine. Don't post if you have nothing good to say. I did not specifically ask anyone person to come build.
Edited 8/27/2005 6:03 am ET by turfgrass
turf,
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Is it apparent to you yet that you blew it with these folks? You had some people willing to help you along down the trail until your attitude got in the way again. They are right…..you are wrong. Simple as that. An admission of that (apology) and readjustment of your choice of words and/or apparent arrogant attitude……… would've likely gotten you what you wanted. It was not be, eh? So now, I'll bet you get zip.
If you don't even see the arrogance in your choice of wording and expression of attitude toward these folks……. you have an even bigger problem than I fear you do. And that problem will continue to alienate people as long as you retain and exercise it. <!----><!---->
"Feel free to design something". We have your permission, do we? <!----><!---->
"A quick sketch using ms paint or before and after photos would suffice." Thanks for clarifying the parameters of what you'd find acceptable. We'll get right on that. Hope we can get it to you in an acceptable and timely manner.<!----><!---->
"Don't post if you have nothing good to say. I did not specifically ask anyone person to come build." No you didn't. You just told us all to "feel free" and what you'd find "acceptable". And now you're about the business of instructing these folks as to who should and shouldn't post to you. ??? <!----><!---->
Here's a clue. A little humility and gratefulness of what is freely offered will get you farther with the people in life whose help you're trying to secure than an arrogant, demanding, insulting and egocentric attitude will. <!----><!---->
You're obviously laboring under a gross misunderstanding. This isn't the public designer's office down at city hall whose services are paid for by your tax dollars. They owe you nothing/nada/zippo and anything you get from them……….is free to you……..and freely given by them. What's to bellyache about or get arrogant about? Or is it just because you didn't hear exactly what you wanted to? If so, then you indeed have some personal issues that most definitely can't be remedied on a building forum…………..no matter how willing and able the contributors are in guiding/assisting you thru the basics of the project you inquired about. <!----><!---->
You might now want to instruct me also "not to post to you"…………but guess what…..I'll do as I please……thank you very much. So will everyone else here at BT. <!----><!---->
Have a nice day (I mean that, BTW) and I hope you try getting out on the other side of the bed tomorrow morning.
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Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 8/27/2005 11:47 am ET by goldhiller
I don't know why you want to bother covering your porch--that attitude of yours seems to be covering you like Maxwell Smart's 'Cone of Silence'.
Look, dude, you've managed to P-O two of the calmest, gentlest members of this forum (that description does not include me, btw. But it does include both Dieselpig and Goldhiller). Getting either of them annoyed enough to slap you down publicly takes a rare talent for acting like a jerk.
Don't post if you have nothing good to say.
I'm not gonna waste any more of my time on you, so you're gonna get your wish.
You're on IGNORE and have a nice life, View Image.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Looks like this thread is due for one of Rez's famous BAGEL inserts....
sigh.
OH REZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (where you at dude!?!)
Considering our Turf person here has only 4 posts per his/her profile...I think we could've extended a BIT more patience and grace... but that's just my opinion...or fantasy (Idealism at work here!).
Things seemed to start to sway into "irritated -land" back about post #7 after initial posters skip past the "presentation" of Turf's initial post and instead focused on the query and project presented.
Understandable that eyebrow raised effect occurred over some unfortunately ill-chosen words by Turf person in earlier post...but those words & phrases could've been gently explored or corrected; or just bypassed altogether.
Instead we got a bit of a pile-on going here right quick, didn't we? Gasoline on the fire and POOF - major snit in no time flat.
I had as my tagline: THIS AIN"T NO PLACE FOR WIMPS! going awhile back and this thread shows some of why I had written that...
Turf possibly has the mental capacity to know how to learn all those things he/she doesn't currently know. And the time to do research, learn nomenclature, take the project a logical step at a time, get some prof. help on items MOST beneficial/necessary, etc.
But I fear now we've run him/her off. Some may say "so what? good riddance!" but I'd ask the collective: if somebody missteps so quickly when they're brand spanking new at posting here - is this REALLY what we want to be the end result?
Turf:
You made a particularly BAD move in your post to Dieselpig calling him: "pig" as a salutation, for one thing. Perhaps you felt shortening his BT name to that was witty...?... but I bet you knew when you did it that you were taking a cheap shot and you should not have given in to that impulse. AGain, that's just my perception & opinion expressed.
Dieselpig is a FINE and accomplished person here - you should view some of his framing projects in the Photo Gallery folder and if you were to do so, and come back here and apologize to him...I think he would probably accept it (I met him at Riverfest few weeks ago and he is a rationale and accomplished person who strikes me as having a generous spirit so......).
Dinosaur had piped in early and posted with helpful intent, as did a handful of others. THAT is the true nature of this Forum - 99% of the time. That he decided to go out with a verbal "hit and run" tactic is not a behavior pattern I would have expected of him; nor one that I've seen displayed in the past. Rather, I know him to be a good soul who handles more "life-stresses" than I can even think of bearing up under day after day after day.
Goldhiller is one of the more outstanding people on this earth...and even he got a straw in his craw on this. Yowzah. Not good, not good at all.
To ALL:
If only we could all have JUST A LITTLE more patience - when it is MOST SORELY TRYING and hard to give. For that is when it counts the most.
(I.E. Let's save the b-slapping for in the Tavern!!!! Where, IMHO, it belongs.)
Alright - all those so inclined to slam ME now - have at it. Won't be the first time, not likely to be the last - and I'm still hanging around regardless! LOL!
DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
"While I breathe I hope" too, that we will learn to do as you say and be a bit "gentler and kinder" here. I agree with everything you said. Sure, Turf said some things that, ahem, may have been taken in, ah, a bad light, but we could give him the benefit of a couple doubts, especially since he is new.
I was afraid though that he would upset people when he wanted so much right away and thought, "I can see this going south in a hurry." Anyway, what's done is done. Maybe we can all take some deep breaths, count to ten and try again!
"Maybe we can all take some deep breaths, count to ten and try again!"
I TRULY hope that happens...IMO we need newbies here just as much as we need the regulars and oracles. What would this Forum be without NEW posters? New Projects? Queries? Personalities? (Nuttin' but a bunch of intellectual inbreeding? G, D & R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) OK, I better stop NOW! LOL!
Well hey - Danno - good to hear from ya - I'm stepping outside into the equivalent of a steam bath with each outdoor project I'm plugging through today. UGH. But I'm determined to get this TO DO list shortened and join some friends to go see "The Cave" (new movie) tonite!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
"Can't we, (sob), can't we all just get along?"
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Okay, maybe you're right.
And.........in honor of your request/suggestion..........and that of Mizshredder's request for decorum.................but still in support of Diesel and Dino, nonetheless............
deep breathing is in progress...............1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9................& 10.
I'm still confused. Guess I lack the maternal instinct. <G>
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I'm in support of you and Diesel and Dino too. I think Turf was out of line, but figure it wouldn't hurt to try again to play in the sandbox nice! (Excuse me, on Friday night my wife dragged me to a play based on Fulghum's book All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten, so I'm sort of caught up in that mindset!) (Now if someone could just stop me from running with scissors before I kill again!)
Ahhhhhh, the voice of reason. And the Ladie's hand once again smoothes over what the men could not.
IMO, no apologies necessary across the board. They're over rated anyway. I was, and still am happy to help. I gave him five paragraphs of solid advice on navigating his project.... and one paragraph of advice on navigating this forum.
Just wasn't what he wanted to hear, I guess. I believe he might do better on DIY forum full of "Yes Men" who will stroke his ego and talk him into building something he may not be ready to build on his own.
After all, it's easy, ain't it?
Peace.
Dinosaur had piped in early.... That he decided to go out with a verbal "hit and run" tactic is not a behavior pattern I would have expected of him; nor one that I've seen displayed in the past. Rather, I know him to be a good soul who handles more "life-stresses" than I can even think of bearing up under day after day after day.
M'dear, you're too kind.
Literally.
While it's true I'm always willing to give a newbie the benefit of the doubt and answer to the best of my ability any questions asked, I do not have a habit of tolerating mean-spirited snipes against master craftsmen like Dieselpig. When this clod made that snide remark about whatever Diesel did for a living not being too demanding--without even knowing what it was that he does!--I lost all and any interest in seeing him around the board. My current stress level has nothing to do with it. Had I a zero stress factor in my life at present, I still would have jumped to defend a friend.
And I hope I always will.
But thank you for your good hearted intent. I know you to be the person you think I am....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
master craftsmen like Dieselpig.
All right..... now you're telling VERY tall tales Dino. I appreciate the compliment, but I'm about a 'master' and a 'craft' short of fitting that description!
Okay, so I'm not as nice as Clara thinks, and you're not as Masterful as I think. Some days are just like that, I guess, LOL....
Dude, your knowledge of framing is superior to mine by a healthy amount. In my book, that makes me the apprentice and you the master whenever we're in the same place at the same time. And I got no problem with that, cause it means I can pick yer brains and get smarter for next time....
But I'm glad you liked my railroad trusses, LOL....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
turf,
It's a new day……..and again in response to the honorable Mizshredder's request for a kinder, gentler way……….let's try this again….or at least have a closer look as to where things appeared to go way south in a big hurry.
I would request/suggest that you reread Diesel's initial post to you, but this time………………don't read the last paragraph. What he offered you is mighty good advice, wouldn't you say? Anything personally offensive there? If there is, I fail to see it. <!----><!----><!---->
Appears you initially took offense only to what he said in the last paragraph concerning your seeming request (or permission granting) …………..for the design services of the forum members. <!----><!---->
Fact is Turf, Diesel stated it the way it is. Design, engineer and build is what many of this forum's members do for a living. It's how they/we put bread on the table and they have this info (that you desire)………because they/we've spent many years learning our craft. If you walked in our shoes for a while, you'd soon come to understand how many people out there approach us on a regular/daily basis, trying to acquire that/everything for free……….in order to save themselves the same hard work (be that hands-on time or nose in the books time) and the lessons of expensive mistakes/oversights that every experienced and knowledgeable craftsman has acquired. If we gave that all away to everyone who requested that…….. there would be no bread on our tables. Despite that fact, Diesel and Dino tried to help you by offering you their time and sound advice …….without financial recompense. What more could you want? And isn't that why you came here in the first place…..to seek the freely given advice/ help of pros concerning your project? <!----><!---->
Again, things went instantly sour when you took offense at Diesel's other helpful piece of advice about getting along better with the forum members here by considering their position in life and therefore assuming a little less demanding of an approach when posting. Even if you don't recognize it yet…….that was also good advice from him……and you'd have done well by yourself to heed it. An attempt at an insulting retort just wasn't called for. Didn't go over very big either and doesn't make much sense in light of your original reason to post and ask for help, does it? Let's see……you came here asking/expecting/hoping for…… free help and when you got it, you then tell Diesel that what he does must not be very time-consuming or he wouldn't take time to post that much info to a complete stranger……like you. Seems more than a bit ironic, doesn't it? You state that he gave too much away by doing ALL THAT typing for a complete stranger (you),………. but really wanted him/someone to devote all the time it would take to make you drawings/plans/take pics and then post those. ????? What am I missing here? Biting the hand that's trying to feed you usually carries the consequences of continuing hunger pangs. <!----><!---->
Dino and Diesel offered what they did, not because they aren't busy people, but because they are so GIVING with what time remains in their day……..and rather than spending all of that on activities that are personally beneficial only, they share with others who ask for help. Presumably, these are just the kind of folks you came here to find and having then found them……but not liking to be corrected/questioned concerning one blunder you made (or certainly appeared to anyway)……you then returned all their beneficial gestures by figuratively flipping them off. Not a good thing. Not here, not anywhere….IMO. <!----><!---->
I learned a long time ago that there are times in life when it's personally beneficial to lay our egos aside and readily receive helpful correction/criticism even if it doesn't initially taste very good. Frequently, progress to a given goal is the result of that. If it isn't, then we can always return to our previous ways of doing/viewing things until/if we find a better way. One thing for sure……..nothing ventured, nothing gained. <!----><!---->
While I can't and certainly won't be so presumptuous as to speak for them………..it wouldn't really surprise me if these same guys (and others, including myself) are willingly to "forgive", shake hands and still try to help you out…….both now and in the future. <!----><!---->
And yes, I took a lot of time to type this all out…..for a complete stranger. If that makes me a chump, then so be it.
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Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
G -
You're no chump...
Never have been, never will be.
(My first evacuee is here! gotta git!)
CDUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Step #1: Have a qualified engineer tell you whether or not the existing foundation is capable of holding the added weight of the walls/roof. If yes, then proceed with walls and roof structure. If no, then demolish the deck, and start from scratch.
My guess is "no".
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Step #1:
Hire an architect to design and specify dimensions, layout and materials.
Once step one is completed, return to this forum to learn step #2.
"Please view the photos and feel free to design something."
Priceless!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
You're going to need more than a little internet advice to get through that Turf. You're in over your head pretty deep. Reason I say that is that you don't even have the nomenclature down and that will make it very hard to offer you assistance if we're talking two different languages.
If you really want to give this a go, then I say go for it, but be smart enough to know when you are in over your head and don't be too proud to hire a pro if you need the help.
Step one would be to have someone in the know (an engineer) look at the footings for the deck and determine whether or not they are substantial enough to carry the load of your proposed work. What you are proposing and what most decks are designed to carry are miles apart. Do not skip this step.... it's crucial. While he's there have him look at your existing roof framing to determine whether or not it can handle a layover roof.
Next you'll either need to get schooled in roof framing pretty quick and to at least a moderate level. While framing a shed layover isn't an advanced roof to frame, it's not cake and pie either for a novice.... not by a long shot. Buy a few books on framing while the archy is working on your drawings and see if you can make sense out of 'em. If you can, then go for it. If you can't, call a pro.
I'd get an architect to draw you some plans and specifications if I were you. You're going to need them whether you build it yourself, or you hire it out. If you were to hire me to build it for you, I'd either want a set of plans or I'd charge you to draw them myself. This is just a bit too large to 'wing it'. Besides, how would I (or you) know that what is being built is what you want without anyone seeing it first?
FWIW, personally you asking the forum to 'feel free to design something' is a bit insulting. Advice, tips and guidance is all good, but asking for design services for free is kinda crazy, don't you think? What do you do for work? Will you do it for me for free because I asked over the internet?
Like Diesel says, a set of plans will benefit both the HO and the builder, whether the builder is the HO or someone else. And, this will likely require a building permit, and the city will want some kind of plans too.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
"FWIW, personally you asking the forum to 'feel free to design something' is a bit insulting. Advice, tips and guidance is all good, but asking for design services for free is kinda crazy, don't you think? What do you do for work? Will you do it for me for free because I asked over the internet?"pig,I don't remember asking you to have blueprints drawn up, signed by an architect and mailed to me. A quick sketch using ms paint or before and after photos would suffice. Whatever you do for work can't be too time consuming if your willing to type six paragraphs for someone you don't know and for free. "kinda crazy"
Yeah... you got me figured out.
Gimme a shout when you're done screwing up the largest investment of your life. I'll straighten it out for you.
You might do well to talk this over with the local building department. In Florida three-season porches are typically viewed as permanent living space and, possibly, a bedroom.
The first part requiring the area be wired just like the rest of the house. I agree with their stand on this issue as I have seen a lot of extension cords run through sliding glass doors so the HO can use a table lamp and run a TV. Eventually most want a ceiling fan also. All sorts of creative wiring gets done to accommodate one.
The second part may demand a larger or expanded septic system. Other issues may also be part of the process.
Good points.
Please give me some things to consider and whether or nor a home owner can take on such a project.
Here are the basics. Location, are there rules required by your AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) for this project. That includes zoning, setbacks, height and area/use requirements. Such rule will also cover construction standards, such as foundation & structure issues like seismic, frost, utilities, etc.
Next, what sort of home owner are you? If you are an under-employed officer worker with a wife and kids, you may have more to handle than building a three-season room might entail. That's your time as well as access to materials, equipment, and building skills. Could be you are an architect, and have a handle on the design, but not the trade skills for the task. Could be you are an experienced framer, too; but if you have not done much remodel/add on work, you could be underskilled, too.
Long and short of the previous two paragraphs could be answered by just filling in your profile.
Ok, making a deck into a TSR--what to think about? First off, the connection of TSR to house has some serious thinking required. Will the TSR become "inside" space fr three quartes of the year? This is no specious question; many TSR are expected to do just that. Just as many "desired" TSR have never had the question asked.
Why worry about that? Well, the floor matters in a TSR as much as the roof. If the new french doors to the deck are to be open 3/4 the year, you may want mor floor than properlydgapped deck boards (if only for insect control). Another consideration is the exterior finish of the TSR. No matter the intent, the succes of the project is in how does it attach to the existing structure. This is more than esthetics, this involves structural & waterproffing issues that don't presently exist (Flashing, flashing, flashing).
Next, is the intended use of the TSR. That might seem blindingly obvious to you, it's a TSR! Except that's not enough. Your now naturally-lit and naturally ventilated deck will become a closed-in, dark, unventilated place without some careful thought. Like the bbq has to move; the chair & butt kit for guests who smoke will also have to move, too. A roof really will change the ventilation--far more than can be appreciated right now. It's dark, too, even with "several windows" and a "couple of skylights." In fact, it will be worse, as the contrast of the full strength sunlight makes "dark" darker.
That says you will need power, and not just a couple of 110 outltes stubbed off an exiting circuit, either. Lighting wants switches, so do fans--that means needing circuits. (Back to codes, permits, licensed work, etc.)
Can a h/o take on such tasks? Dependds on the h/o. If you live far enough south, you might get 3-4 hours a day of daylight to work on the project, and maybe 16 more on the w/e. With spouse and chillins, you'll be lucky to actually "get" half that. Time will not be your friend. Time is critical, as it affects what does it cost you to buy materials that do nothing but sit in the elements, possibly deteriorating into non-utility. Only you can make the business case that says whether this is a good project to do.