Just curious to everybodys opinion on which method is preferred. a layer of tyvek building wrap or two layers of tar paper.
Thx
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1 layer of felt (tar paper) here.
wunder id this is a set up....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Beats me , maybe a cover up?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
one layer of felt....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Typar.
Or one layer of tar paper.
Why would you use two layers of tar paper?
30#felt
one layer of felt.. with grace on the corners and around the openingsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
By Grace, I assume you mean Vycor? Should the Grace go on the corner first and then tar paper overlap it? The reason I ask is I'm replacing corner trim boards and was wondering the best way to prep the corner. I've already done one corner and just put the Vycor on the exposed corner...couldn't get under the clapboards. Do I need tar paper over the Vycor and slid under the clapboard to cover the seam?
Thank You
How do people prep near the edges for when the corner boards are NOT removed (e.g., only the siding is replaced)?
Greg
Would have hoped the edges were wrapped. The tar paper under the corner boards runs long so if you pull the siding you would see the paper that was wrapping the corner.
The corners were wrapped, but how to folks on BT handle the transition between the new tarpaper and the old rosin paper/tarpaper from from the intact cornerboards prior to residing?
we usually put our corners on first ( the vykor ) and it would cover that vertical joint by say 3 - 4 inches
then the felt laps the vykorin any case vykor doesn't like ultraviolet
and just keep in mind it is the vertical joint between the corner & the siding that you are trying to flash/protectMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I caulk the joint where the clapboard butts the corner board. I don't think there is any tar paper or house wrap on the house. The only tar paper is under the corner board and it runs under the clapboard/corner board vertical joint. Also, when I removed a corner board the tar paper was staple to it and not to the sheathing. Does it make any sense to to this with the vycor...it wasn't a lot of fun to put one long piece of vycor on an 18 foot corner....I felt like an ant on flypaper.
whenwe are doing reeplacement corner boards, we use short pieces of grace ( vykor to u ) like 12 "
also we slide a flat bar under the siding and slip in small rectangles of felt
it's kind of like step flashing a cornerMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I do use Grace on the doors & windows, like the idea of using it on the corners.
You try dupont flexwrap sills in your window openings? We just did that and it was very fast. You know the corners are good.
Pat
yeah... we've tried 'em all
always go back to grace
nothing cheaper or better
and a heat gun will always help to make the cornerMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
+1 on the heat gun with Grace/Vycor. Kinda like mini-torchdown.
Heatgun,
So you stretch the corners 90 degrees or cut out a tag?
And are you buying a roll of I&W and cutting it or does it come smaller? I'm familiar with vykor -- the deck joist roll...
I suppose a quick product search would get me there...
Thx,
pat
we do the pan... we do the sides
then we make corners
and we cut evrything off the 3' roll
best SF price on the materialMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"and we cut evrything off the 3' roll
best SF price on the material"
That's what I do!
Waters
You try dupont flexwrap
But boy, it is expensive.
Rich
Edited 8/30/2008 9:40 am ET by cargin
No one around here has any opinion at all on that topic.
Yeah, 'cause really the siding keeps all the water out so what's the housewrap for anyway--
"......o what's the housewrap for anyway..."I think it's for advertising. I see no other use.I go with tar paper; currently my house is awaiting siding so it is just tar paper (and has been for about a year now). A literal tar paper shack it is. I used 15# figuring I'd put a fresh layer over top before siding but the 15# doesn't like water/gets all wavy; does 30# get wavy easily too?
To answer your question, yes the 30 lb does wrinkle up and it does not lay back down as nice as the 15 lb and can telegraph some too on 3 tab shingles if you still use them but 30 lb tends not to blow off almost ever when just nailed with roofers.
Interesting quote.Unfortunately Carl is comparing apples with oranges. Politics and religion are "institutions" and subject to liability(Can be punished). Though science can be scrutinized just as equally, it is immune from punishment.That's why there is the right to remain silent, because...well...you know the rest... ;-)Chief of all sinners.
I'd say that the rate of punishment in science, in relation to the frequency of crime, is far higher than in politics or religion.
In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. --Carl Sagan
I'm willing to concede that you are correct. But, could you give me an example of 'punishment in science?'Also, you mentioned that it is in relation to the 'frequency of crime.' What is 'crime' but the breaking of a rule set by said 'institutions.' I To use the word crime legitimizes their authority.But, I think I hear what you are saying...please, let me attempt to confirm...Are you saying that there is more "wrong doing" by politics and religion than by science?
Chief of all sinners.
A number of scientists have suffered various degrees of punishment for mishandling research grants. I can't point to any specifics, but I certainly recall reading of them. And a relatively few researchers have been found to have falsified data, sometimes to the point of legal culpability. Beyond that, and the occasional individual who gets on the wrong side of US security laws, I think scientists are "just people" and would be guilty of the usual "just people" crimes.Since scientists tend to be motivated primarily by scientific curiosity, rather than by power or money, and since most forms of illegitimate activity would be contrary to that motivation, scientists are less likely to fall prey to the sort of graft and corruption that seems to be too common for politicians. And the scientific community is largely neutral towards one's sexual orientation, so that relatively few scientists get caught up in messy situations like Ted Haggard. As for liking little boys and the like, I can't say, other than to note that there's nothing in science to disproportionately attract people with such a predilection.Where a scientist would be most strongly motivated to "bend" the law (or company/university rules) would be when a pet project is at risk. That certainly happens, but again is fairly rare.
In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. --Carl Sagan
what the h are you guys talking about!?
I thought this was about tarpaper?
teach me to glance away for a minute..
I apologize for the long delay of this response. But, It did give me an opportunity to really think about your quote.Because politics and religion are both "belief" systems and science is an "exploration" of reality (Though some have taken science "theory" and turned it into a "belief") I've concluded that your Carl Sagan quote is a legitimate analysis... Too bad he's not around to see me change my mind.;-)Chief of all sinners.
An easy one would be the Tacoma Narrows bridge. Scientists broke the laws of physics (unknowingly, maybe), and the bridg collapsed because laws of science were violated (knowingly or not).
Punishment? Depends. Many times there may be liability/culpability other times it may be nothing more than losing face amongst colleagues and/or clients. If you are a professional designer and you fail to take into account known science, you could be liable ... criminally or civily (sp).
I think the 'crime' is the breaking of the known rules of science ... at least that is kind of the way I interpreted the words.
pinhole tarpaper
When I insited on 14# felt for the coastal job I just did, my carpenter partner buddy working with us whined about it. Mostly b/c it's a pain to install. tears easily, heavy roll, wrinkly.. etc.
I showed him this article http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/making-sense-of-housewraps.aspx and we talked about permeability and what plastic vs. felt means for any water behind the siding, behind the wrap and he changed his tune.
Got a couple heavy rains while working (usually no rain at all in the summer on OR coast) and things were bone dry. Also very saggy and wrinkly, but then the sun comes out and things breathe/dry out.
Use cap staples and staple only the top and bottom of the paper--lets things move around better.
Pat
I'll be doing all felt now and in the future.
I never knew you felt that way.....
.
"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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.
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
I know whats cheaper. Tyvek does seem to go up a little faster though, so whats your time worth?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
"so whats your time worth?"In MI? Nothing.
It would seem as such.
Thanks for the reminder though.:>)
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Re. the wrap, what is going on top? Siding, stucco, etc??
I usually use building wrap, tyvek, typar, etc on most applications and use 15 lb tarpaper as the bond break with Stucco.
Framers are used to it round here, I can inspect it thoroughly prior to siding, it is more forgiving when working around windows, etc.
BTW, i use Vicor or equiv in window sill areas only. i caulk the windows to the tyvek on the sides and caulk the windows to the sheathing on the top. No caulk bottom so that any water that gets on sill from leaking window can drain to exterior and not be trapped behind a good bead of silicone.
Darn window manufacturers have specs that half the time will be potential leaks IMO.
I noted that no one asked for the location or type of siding.
I am not sure of this, but I believe that CA and with stucco the correct answer is none of the above.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I like Tyvek.
It is more expensive, but it installs and weathers more quickly than tar paper (in my experience). I think the perm numbers are important to consider, but a functional WRB is the primary goal.
Actually, our house wrap choice may change as the AHJ is now requiring a nailing inspection on our sheathing so we can't install Tyvek in 9'x30' sections when the wall is still on the deck like we used to be able to. Maybe #15 will start to show up more now?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA