Since there’s a couple of diesel guys here, as always, when I dont really have an answer, I go looking for it.
Here’s what I know so far. ULSD is hitting the pumps just about everywhere now. We’ve seen the stickers about not using the “regular” 500ppm diesel in 07 engines, which in and of itself is pretty misleading since those engines aren’t made yet and will go into late 07 models and 08 trucks. The ULSD is 15ppm and supposed to be 80% of nationwide distribution this month.
Some places, like CA, have had it already for a few months. Here, they’re putting it in the tanks but cant change the stickers until the tanks get flushed enough to test at 15ppm sulfur.
Here’s the argument I hear, sounds plausible, can’t substantiate. Removing the sulfur also removes lubricants, which is one of the big advantages to diesel fuel. Chevron, just one example, says on their website basically don’t worry about it, everything is fine, we’ve added lubricants to the ULSD for everyone with a regular diesel engine. Not sure how far to trust the oil companies after this year.
Not to mention in the new trucks, Ford for example, there’s a lot of components in the fuel system that apparently have been redesigned; I’m told all brass parts have become all stainless because of higher heat resistance. Which, if it’s true, means someone making trucks is expecting less lubrication from the fuel.
I didnt put this in the tavern. I don’t go there, and I think the topic pertains to how we do our jobs – even if we don’t drive a diesel truck, many have skid steers and other heavy equipment that may be impacted by it. Again, I’m told that the even the off road diesel will be ULSD.
So if you’ve been on the stuff already, perceptions? If you haven’t, anyone know anything more concrete than the grapevine stuff I’ve churned up? My gut at the moment says that aftermarket additives just became mandatory in the summer months too.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Replies
I'm already using it, but mixed with biodiesel (about 50/50). From what I've read about it, ULSD should have lubricants added back in. . . that's no guarantee though. I do know that Biodiesel is an excellent lubricant, even in amounts as small as 1-2%. I also know that lubricity is in the ASTM specifications for automotive diesel, so they still have to meet a minimum.
Maybe I'll notice a difference after a few tanks, but I doubt it.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I have heard the same thing- the additional refinig processes to remove the sulphur also remove some of the lubricating qualities of the fuel.
That does not mean that the sulphur provides the lubrication- a common misunderstanding.
I have also read in several places that biodiesel- even in small quantities like 2%- provides better lubrication qualities than the diesel fuel now in use.
Because of the missing lubricants -oil- ULSD supposedly has a lower BTU content than "regular" diesel, which results in less MPG's.
The two diesel vehicles I own are not manufacturer rated to use anything more than 5% biodiesel (PD Jetta) or 2% biodiesel (Sprinter). Use of biodiesel in greater quantities will "void the warranty"- says so in the manual. How will the "biodiesel revolution" ever happen if manufacturers do not make vehicles that can use the fuel?
Modern diesels are much different than their predecessors. Injection pressures are much higher than before. The Mercedes CRD engine in the Sprinter has pressures over 20,000 PSI. Same neighborhood for the Jetta PD engine. Small amounts of free water in the fuel literally explode metal from the fuel components at that pressure. Older Ford IDI Powerstrokes had material blasted from the cylinder walls in the cooling jackets from the ignition shockwave if the proper Ford coolant wetting agent wasn't used.
It is possible that in the case of new stainless components for the fuel system that Ford has recognized there is a durability problem. There is an ongoing power war between the big three and all that power generates extra heat. Maybe the redesign is to ensure the parts in the fuel system will be functional for the 100,000 mile emissions warranty. Who knows.
If ULSD meets ATSM standards, then the lubrication qualities should be a non-issue. Of course, BP Amoco didn't believe in sending pigs through their pipes, either.
I have tried B11 in both of my vehicles and they seem to like it. Easier starts and either less smoke or less opaque smoke at WOT. Fuel mileage seems to be about the same so far- won't know for sure until the next fill up. The fuel comes from a retail commercial vendor- it is not homemade.... but it still technically voids the manufacturers warranty. I do not know if I can use it year round here in the Chicago area without jelling issues- even with an additive.
Not too many retailers in my area that sell biodiesel. The nearest B2 pumps are a 50+ mile special roundtrip- not real economical or efficient to do that (they also have B100). The B11 pumps are much closer and I am in that area enough to justify a side trip. The B20 pumps near O'Hare were shut down because the station did not have a canopy over them (fire safety) and I do not know if they were ever reopened.
I use Stanadyne year round.
To the best of my knowledge, I have not used ULSD yet.
There was a big discussion recently about ULSD at the Yahoo Sprinter forum. Also plenty of stuff in the "Fuels and Lubricants" section at http://www.tdiclub.com More than a few owners of those vehicles using biodiesel and not reporting any issues.
Biodiesel and VWO are not the same thing- for those that do not know.
Great feedback. I just picked up my truck from the mechanic today. Lots of small issues, and come to find out that one was some kind of a water drain valve on the fuel system. The mechanic said about that, they'd had a glut of trucks in the last month with the seals on those leaking, and attributes the change to the arrival of ULSD in town.
I called a friend with an almost identical truck and said hey, in the event you get a fuel leak, check here first. He said thats odd, I started leaking a week ago. So, accurate statistical sample it isnt, but it does add to my belief that the change isn't as glorious a revolution as the EPA would have us believe. And really, we want the bad stuff out, so we take it out, which can have unintended consequences for the engine, so we throw in additives to counteract it, and we're right back where we started, but some bureaucrat gets to punch the ticket that says I saved the world today. End result, consumer pays more. Not feeling trustful today.
And your BP comment. Between that and fuel prices the last year, exactly what I was thinking about when I questioned how much faith I have in oil companies.Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
add another one to the list with new fuel leaks..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Dang man. You just got your ride back too didnt you?
I must confess. I told you a bit ago that I got stricken, almost terminally ill, with the PMS (Powerstroke Modification Syndrome). I dont even have a Powerstroke anymore. I have a PS/FASS/ITP/Stealth/ISSPRO/Cummins/BTS/01,05, and 07 rig. Reminds me of the Johnny Cash song - one piece at a time. I open the hood now and just say "BORG". Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
open the hood and say..
CUMMINS!!!!
on a Ford too.....
it's great...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!