For the condo loft we are working on, the building management is strongly recommending that all the appliances be ventless. Gas water heaters are definately out because of the flue, but we can live with that. However, they are asking that we use ventless or recirculating cooktop vent hood, clothes dryer and bathroom exhaust fan. And of course they have a list of appliances that meet those criteria, withj names like Miele and Kuppersbusch.
How the heck do you use a ventless bathroom exhaust fan? I talked with the building architect, and he said the moisture from hot showers would not be a problem. Just dump plenty of dry air into the room from the a/c system. Sounds like an invitastion to mold and peeling wallpaper.
Anyone ever have this situation?
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Replies
"Anyone ever have this situation?"
Yup.
Build it and move on ... can't save the world all the time.
don't have it on my own projects of my own design( if I can help it) ... but sometimes as a sub ya just say OK and work with what yer given.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
How bout venting those bathroom fans into the buildingg management's office?
Who is going to be taking a shower in a bathroom with the AC on?
Not me, Joe H
think I'd check with the local mechanical inspector rather than the suggestions of the management - unless you can get them (the management) to sign off on the CO - and the building inspector accepts it.
other thing would be to play 20 questions as to the basis of this suggestion - why do they are they suggesting ventless - if nothing else, you should consider how to keep the air "fresh" - don't know if I'd trust the A/C to clean the air of the cooking "smoke and grease laden vapors" as well as the other odors
They don't want anyb penetrations through the walls of their precious building. Can't go up cuz the building owner occupies the top two floors and no one thought to install a chase or common duct when they designed her suite.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
>>Anyone ever have this situation?
I think the 3 Stooges did a 1 reeler were they did that.
Simple. Insist they sign a contract releasing you from all liability regarding iaq, mold etc, countersigned by their insurance agent.
Recirculating kitchen hoods are commonly available and in most jurisdictions (unfortunately) acceptable. Recirculating bathroom exhaust and dryer exhaust is, in all jurisdictions with which I have personal experience and as far as I recall according to the IMC and BOCA Codes, is a violation of the Code. I do not know what applies in your location, but as a CYA, you will want to know what Code applies and exactly what it says. Whether the appliances are intended for ventless operation is immaterial if not allowed by the AHJ.
I looked at a Miele clothes dryer. They call it a condensing model. The moisture either is collected ina small cup which you empty, or a small hose can go to the washer drain. The lady said it does take a little longer to dry the clothes. I think the dryer is not going to be a problem.
The cooktop vent may be an issue. I looked at recirculating models, and they all use a grease trap filter and a charcoal filter. Not the best setup but it might be acceptable.
The bathroom ... the client and I are both concerned about the bathroom exhaust. She is sending a letter to the architectural design committee asking for a variance. They are still within their free-look period, so if the variance is denied I think they may take their deposit back and go somewhere else. her brother is an architect and he is telling her it is a major flaw in the building.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Update ...
With a little bit of pressure, the archy and the owner has agreed, in writing, to let us have one 8"x16" exterior vent, and we're going to use that for the bath exhaust and the cooktop exhaust.
We got into a similar problem when I realized that none of the exterior windows were egressable. After a lot of cussin' and discussin' we finally received a letter signed by the city that waives the requirements for windows in the bedrooms. I met with a very helpful lady at the permit office who took a lot of time to meet with permit officials to verify that the letter was genuine, and she siad it is, and we can put the bedrooms anywhere in the space.
So thenm I mentioned to her that the archy said that the apartments he is designing for the building will not have ventialtion in the bathrooms, and he told me that in an email. I showed hewr a copy of the email, and she said that would not pass inspection. She called the next day to say that she found another variance request that had been approved, and it permits un-ventilated bathrooms and laundry rooms. She asked if I wanted a copy, and I said no, we're going to exhaust the moistrure out of the building.
I can't believe that an architect would want to trap thast much moistuire inside a condo, all for the sake of not penetrating the shell.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
two things real quick - don't know if you're allowed to vent the bathroom with the kitchen (cross contamination of steam with grease)
seems to me you don't need egress windows in fully sprinkler building - I remember something windows can have non-operable grates you might want to check it out - okay for the arch. & owner to "permit" the one vent but they're not the AHJ who signs
If the bathroom doesn't have an operable window then plumbing code probably requires a vent fan.
Correct on the fan-or-window issue, except in this case they building owner has secured a variance for the whole building that allows bathrooms without a fan or a window ... no ventilation needed.
And a similar variance for the bedrooms. Not only does the variance allow for non-egressable windows (the sprinklers heloped that), but they don't even need any natural light.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt