Replies

1. 
   Mad_Dog | Nov 22, 2001 02:51am | #1

   *
   So what's this got to do with vinyl siding?

   Tax paper. That's certainly a good place to put it...

   Tar paper is good too.

1. 
   Greg_Rawe | Nov 22, 2001 04:09pm | #2

   *staraj,Sounds like your buddie's dealer has an overstock of tar paper that he needs to move out. Why install another layer? Nothing between the brick and the interior now?Waste of time, money, etc.The real question is... Vinyl siding over brick????? Is the brick color purple or something??? Why cover it???

1. 
   Sandy_C. | Nov 27, 2001 02:31pm | #3

   *Agree with Greg, there's way too much vinyl in this world now!

1. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Nov 27, 2001 10:44pm | #4

   *It's one of those...can't hurt....things. If the mortar is shot.....the bricks are real worn...and such....it'll shed a little more water away from the old structure. Doesn't cost that much....and provides a bit of a water/wind stop. Maybe sandy and greg will pay to have the house brought back to it's former glory(scrubbed/pointed/bricks replaced....then insulated around existing mechanicals and replastered interior) .....if not.....go ahead.....paper and v-side. Jeff

1. 
   Geoff_B | Nov 28, 2001 03:05am | #5

   *The average home builder in my area puts nothing between the OSB and vinyl siding. I think the tar paper is a waste of time. How much water gets thu the siding? Also how the heck would you attach it?

2. 
   Mike_Smith | Nov 28, 2001 03:46am | #6

   *geoff... are u kiddin ?

3. 
   Geoff_B | Nov 28, 2001 05:24am | #7

   *About what?

4. 
   Mike_Smith | Nov 28, 2001 05:32am | #8

   *about: " The average home builder in my area puts nothing between the OSB and vinyl siding." (BS) "I think the tar paper is a waste of time." (so ?)"How much water gets thu the siding? " (a lot)"Also how the heck would you attach it? "(with staples or nails or tins)b but then , you were kidding , right ?

5. 
   blue_eyed_devil_ | Nov 28, 2001 06:02am | #9

   *Mike, only about 33% of the bilders around here put any paper over the osb here too. I personally don't think it's a big deal. I might be wrong though....blue

6. 
   Tim_Thompson | Nov 28, 2001 06:54am | #10

   *We have a builder in my area that is notorious for omitting the tar paper between the OSB and vinyl. I hope he is in business for many years to come, as he is creating so much repair work for us that I may have to hire a crew just to repair the rotten OSB and framing that occurs from 5 to 7 years after he completes a house.

7. 
   Mike_Smith | Nov 28, 2001 07:29am | #11

   *blue.... you wrong...i don't think so... i bet it's those 33% who use the tar paper..hah, hah, hah....not to mention those 2% still furring their ceilings... slow nite , huh ?....couldn't even get ed to bite...wonder what aj is up to ?

8. 
   Mongo_ | Nov 28, 2001 07:51am | #12

   *Vinyl is like a seive when it comes to preventing water penetration. I couldn't imagine vinyl directly on OSB. Well, actually, I can, which is why I can't believe a consciencious builder would omit $100 worth of tar paper out of the building budget.

9. 
   Andy_Engel_ | Nov 28, 2001 04:28pm | #13

   *My God men, vinyl siding is some of the leakiest stuff out there! I don't know about other manufacturers, but Certainteed has a great vinyl-siding installation manual. Not only does it advocate a drainage plane of either tar paper or housewrap, it advocates sheet-metal flashing at inside corners. IMO, all that vinyl siding really does is protect its underlying tar paper or housewrap from UV degradation.BTW, aesthetics aside, and combined with a drainage plane, vinyl's actually a really good siding choice. Andy

10. 
    Geoff_B | Nov 28, 2001 05:34pm | #14

    *Mike-I agree that siding is leaky but 2 of maryland largest builders use nothing between the osb and siding. I have worked on $400,000+ houses that are still osb outside while we are trimming.How do you attach tar paper to brick with staples?

11. 
    Mike_Smith | Nov 28, 2001 08:38pm | #15

    *geoff... shame on them..pick up any trade magazine and read about multi-million dollar builders going under because they didn't use a rain screen... and had to pull the plug after a few lawsuits..is it brick veneer ?then the felt goes on the sheathing behind the brick, brick needs a rain screen too ..

12. 
    Geoff_B | Nov 28, 2001 09:21pm | #16

    *They are brick front and yes the masons do tar paper, but nothing under the vinyl. Potential buisness for years to come.And how bout those brick staples?

13. 
    Mongo_ | Nov 28, 2001 10:43pm | #17

    *Brick staples? Run the tar paper as the furring strips are installed. Let the furring strips hold the tar paper up against the brick.Vinyl does leak. I'd rather have a tar paper drainage plane behind the brick to help keep moisture off the brick. If the brick was allowed to get wet, in the constricted space behind the vinyl there's a chance that it would take too long to dry out, causing dampness to slowly work its way through the brick. Will this cause future damage? I don't know.The thing is, behind the brick the tar paper may not be critical, but it's a nice touch. It won't hurt, but it may help. Would a failure occur down the road? I can't say. But for a few bucks a roll, I'd add the tar paper anyway. Insurance and peace of mind.Vinyl over OSB? There, the tar paper is critical. It doesn't matter how much the house will be sold for. If you're building a shack or a mcmansion and install vinyl directly over OSB, you're building poorly.No excuses. None.

14. 
    Mad_Dog | Nov 29, 2001 04:20am | #18

    *Vinyl over OSB--I've heard of this being done, but if anyone did it around here they'd be laughed right out of business.

15. 
    Geoff_B | Dec 01, 2001 03:14am | #19

    *Yea I'd laugh too, but I'd be dead before they are out of buisness. Builder has 3 houses worth 4,000,000.00_+ boats+cars+planes...etc...I guess the quality of construction in inversely proportional to the quality of life.Because it's done, does not make it right.

16. 
    rmanbike | Dec 03, 2001 05:28am | #20

    *Here in the piedmont area of NC just about every builder (custom builders aside) never uses anything over OSB before installing vinly siding. And thats one more reason they will never build my house. Just breaking ground, Roger

17. 
    4Lorn | Dec 07, 2001 10:45am | #21

    *I don't know. ( Those three little words that men have such difficulty saying. ) That said wasn't there a flap years, maybe many years, ago about tar paper applied under light colored vinyl in hot weather climates. Seems there was something about the tar oil leaching into the vinyl causing streaks wherever the vinyl touched the tar paper. Does anyone remember anything about this or have I been standing in the hot, hot, sun too long.

18. 
    Mike_Smith | Dec 07, 2001 03:35pm | #22

    *....i don't know...

19. 
    Bill_Hartmann | Dec 07, 2001 05:51pm | #23

    *i That said wasn't there a flap years, maybe many years, ago about tar paper applied under light colored vinyl in hot weather climates. Seems there was something about the tar oil leaching into the vinyl causing streaks wherever the vinyl touched the tar paper. Does anyone remember anything about this or have I been standing in the hot, hot, sun too long. This came up in the JLC forum a few months ago. Several people remembered "stories" but no every knew of any personally and one participant that worked for several different siding manufacters over the years talked to his buddies in one or more of the companies and they said that they had never heard of any problems from the felt.

20. 
    Greg_Rawe | Dec 08, 2001 06:17am | #24

    *I've never heard of or seen tar paper bleed through vinyl. If this has happened, must have been some cheap-o stuff from Homer Despot or something! Funny, this whole thing started over a question about tar paper over brick before the vinyl. Tar paper over OSB-- definately, over brick-- why?? Unless your brick morter joints are mostly gone or there are some serious gaps. Have to imagine that there haven't been any problems with water wicking through the brick after all of these years, why would it start now just because you are covering the brick with vinyl??

21. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Dec 08, 2001 02:10pm | #25

    *I agree Greg. Paper over brick is a sure sign of OCD.blue

22. 
    staraj | Dec 10, 2001 05:10pm | #26

    *My buddy talked to a another siding contractor who said, "I've sided a hundred of these type of back walls, they all developed the same moisture problem. The bricks were not fired correctly and over time (50 years) become more and more porous". For the siding nay-sayers, don't fret. This is the back wall of a fully attached row house. He is not going to use the tar paper. Thanks to all for your input. Now about that OSB issue........

23. 
    Andy_Engel_ | Dec 11, 2001 02:45am | #27

    *It's not just old bricks. Take a new brick, soak it in water for a while, and split it open. Bricks, and most masonry, are not waterproof.Andy

24. 
    Mongo_ | Dec 11, 2001 06:52am | #28

    *The brick has always been eposed to free air, so when it got wet, it was able to dry quite easily.Encase the brick behind a layer of vinyl. Now wet it...and brick will get wet behind vinyl. Without being exposed to free air, it'll take longer to dry, which gives the water longer to wick through the brick.The brick stays wet longer, and slowly, over several weting/not-quite-drying cycles, moisture could wick through the entire brick. Again, it's the long-term effect of being constantly damp that can eventually cause problems. If in a winter climate, add in a few freeze/thaw cycles.We do have differences due to climate. We get a lot of wind-blown rain here, and when rain moves sideways, it'll go through siding. So, I suppose the details do depend on what climate you're dealing with.

2. 
   staraj | Dec 11, 2001 07:02am | #29

   *
   I have a buddy who is siding a brick house. The dealer recommends putting up tax paper prior to the furring strips and insulation panels. I am not so sure about the tar paper. Any thoughts?