Vinyl siding estimate, what am I missing
I don’t do much siding work. I can do it, just not asked much for it. So what am I missing here?
I put in an estimate to redo a vinyl siding job, soffits and fascia and all for $7200. The HO has had me do work for them these last few weeks, impressed, so wants to toss me the siding job. he comes back at me and says he got estimate for the siding, one at $2500 another at $3000, wants to know why I am so dang high.
He called the one estimator for $2500 to find out where the siding was coming from. Turns out to be the same supplier I am using, for Crane dutch lap vinyl, about $130/box for 2 square.
In my estimate I arrived at 18 square of siding, approx 9 boxes which comes to about $1170 for siding materials alone. I also have to take down the fascia capping and soffits because the color scheme will change from brown to white. I computed 150 feet of soffiting. In my area soffing/capping on a new home runs about $10/ ft for labor and materials. So that puts me at about $1495 to do 150′ of soffiting. Plus to take all the old off I’m throwing on another $750 on top of that. So, add $1170, $1495 and $750 and you get $3415.
Now, the existing siding must come off, new starter strips, J channel, Sill strips,Corner posts, etc must go on. The entire color scheme is changing on this house. With labor and time I arrived at $7200. Now if the materials alone total $3415, can anyone think of how in the world this guy is getting estimates for $2500 and $3000?
The HO seems to be on my side in that he’s asking me what he is missing in looking at these estimates. He’s emailing them to me to see for myself. I laid it flat on the table, my figures and said I can’t see how they’re making any money. He seems to see this and agrees. Yet he’s unable to refuse an offer too good to be true. Seriously, he can’t, if he feels they’ll do the job for $2500 he’s not concerned with what they make as long as the job gets done. Last week he seemed intent on taking the $2500 estimate. I told him to go for it.
Replies
"In my estimate I arrived at 18 square of siding, approx 9 boxes which comes to about $1170 for siding materials alone. I also have to take down the fascia capping and soffits because the color scheme will change from brown to white. I computed 150 feet of soffiting. In my area soffing/capping on a new home runs about $10/ ft for labor and materials. So that puts me at about $1495 to do 150' of soffiting. Plus to take all the old off I'm throwing on another $750 on top of that. So, add $1170, $1495 and $750 and you get $3415."
"Now if the materials alone total $3415,"
The materials don't totatl $3415. The siding is $1170 but the soffit material is probably 40% of your $10 a ft price for labor and materials. So say $600 for the soffit material. So the total of material alone using your figures is about $1770.
In my area the siding only crews will hang vinyl for $100 a square labor. So using that number the 3k bid is about what it would cost here. That would be $10 a Lf for the soffit, $900 labor for the vinyl so your in my area $3500ish would do it. And if the crews in my area are not doing anything they will tear old vinyl off for free. By the way, why change the starter strip? You can't see it.
I can't compete with them either. So I rarely get a siding job. The only ones I get are small additions that we are doing or finishing up a home owner started job last year. On those I charge T&M because you don't know what you are getting into until you are there. DanT
$100 a square to hang it??? Would that include labor to remove all the old siding and dispose and time to dispose? $100 a square sounds reasonable IF you're hanging large sections that go up in minutes. But when you got a ton of cutting, gable cuts, window openings, and the like, it's a lot longer than hanging a full square in a matter of minutes.
If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
The siding subs around here would kill for $100/Sq- they get $60-$70/sq from the builders here in NJ. Of course, the quality shows....
Bob
Bob,
I've seen guys getting $100 a sq on resides in your area. New about 50 or 60.
Yep, $100 bucks. And if they are hungry down it comes for free. They would be thrilled if the starter is level so they don't have to screw with it. Amount of gables and cutting means nothing to them. And frankly they are far faster at it than we are. DanT
"And frankly they are far faster at it than we are. DanT"
and .. in most "sq ft" trades ... they're subs of subs of subs ...
so the final price don't mean much to the guy actually quoting it. They just burn thru one young crew after another ... and some of those guys are actually happy making a fast $100/day.
just the nature of the beast.
flooring, siding,roofing ... etc ... I can't "compete" ... and don't want to. I'm not into "speed" carpentry ... too lazy! I myself have given quite a few good vinyl siding bids ... never got 'a one of them. One I was close on ... they wanted to save their original moulding .... I couldn't hit their target date ... the "winners" could ... and did a nice job of the project. Have done lotsa siding when it's "my own project" ... the old .. while yer here deal .. but never got one "stand alone/siding only" job ... and for good reason! Like you said ... they're way faster ... and even sometimes as good if not better.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
and .. in most "sq ft" trades ... they're subs of subs of subs ...
so the final price don't mean much to the guy actually quoting it. They just burn thru one young crew after another ... and some of those guys are actually happy making a fast $100/day.
A long, long, long time ago I used to work for one of if not the largest siding companies in New Jersey.
We would bid a job and then line up the siding crew to do the job. Most times one or two companies would take the work. BUt, when you went to the site it was different crews actually doing it. Everyone had a sub crew doing something. Sometimes our work was being done by a crew four payments removed from the original contract.
MAkes ya wonder how they made a living. Then again, 12 paraguyan's living in a two bedroom apartment in the Ironbound section of Newark probably don't have real big living expenses.m
I gotta believe your customer is not comparing apples to apples. Something must have got lost in translation with the other guy. Or the other guy just wants to get his foot in the door then when the job is half done he'll come back with "I must've miscalculated your estimate....I'm really gonna need to get another $$$$$$$". A lot of guys operate that way.
How do you feel about DanTs post to mine?If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
I looked at a re-side, those cedar shake panels. I based my estimate on my hourly rate at about $47/hr.(I run my business on a labor burden basis) and a helper for $18/hr. my cost.
Someone else told him they could do it for $25/hr. for two guys.
You probably aren't missing anything except your chance at living in a 50 yr. old trailer with half your extended family.
I'm wil Dan on this one ..
and what's all the concern with "demo" ...
dumping, I could see. Demo? reach out and pull hard?
and the lower prices are guys working sq ft. They don't care that it's chopped ... then next one won't be. To them .... siding mechanics ... it's all about the sq footage.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa