Hi all,
Though not a “fine” building material I am in the planning stages of having new vinyl siding installed on my home (current siding is aluminum).
I am an avid DIY’er but I know nothing about vinyl siding, aside from the general “pros and cons” of it over other materials. What I hope to learn is what constitutes a decent quality siding and, perhaps more importantly, what to ask/look for in a quality installation. I want to be able to identify short cuts and specify certain things (should the electric meter box be attached directly on top of the siding?) In short, I want to avoid a shoddy job.
Many thanks,
Dan
Replies
I know this isn't really an answer to your question but if you really dont want a shoddy job don't use vinyl. Vinyl is a shoddy material that's almost impossible to install well. Properly installed wind blows water through it and it moves too much to seal. The trim that is available looks cheap and won't keep water out, and that's all on a properly installed job. I don't think I've ever seen a vinyl job where everything was flashed correctly so that water wouldn't run in. I have made a lot of money repairing the rotten structure under vinyl though.
Take a look at fiber cement siding, Hardi is one example. Good, sturdy material, long lasting, holds paint well and will enhance the value of your home.
judging a siding job
You don't sound you are doing this yourself. A good siding job, for me, would look good and more important, direct the water so that underlayment does not get water damaged. Obviously, how the channels are installed and the flashing under them are important. This includes all corners, window/door openings, electrical box, outdoor faucets, outdoor lights/outlets, phone,cable penetrations, attic vents,etc. Flashing under the windows should go over the siding underneath, for example.
The roof/siding suppliers would have better materials and color matched caulk. I compared (did my house myself) better material to Homedepot supply and quality was obvious, especially the channels.
Look for siding supplier online and read the instruction or pick up a manual from a supplier. It comes to fairly thick pamphlet and it should give you a good idea.
For the looks as well as a function, the channels around windows and doors should have tight joints (but not with nails) at the corners, I screwed them together with 1/2" screws and covered the head with caulk. The joints between main panels should be flat and not showing a gap. This is matter of nail spacing that's covered in the manual. At the very top, the siding should not end with regular j channel but with smaller channel that the cut edge of siding slips into. The cut edge gets punched out tabs that locks into the channel.
The aluminum siding should be removed. Also remove the old house wrap. If you have plywood wall, you can caulk all joints (even where it meets the foundation) to cut the draft. What house wrap to use is your choice. Any house wrap that breathes should be good, and many also still prefer tarpaper. Always have positive drain where any moisture would travel down over the wrapping underneath. Do not rely on the wrap tape for drainage. Recent review in FHB on these tapes is that they are not to be thought of as permanent joint.
Hope it helps.
Aside from getting it straight and not nailing it too tight, it's all in the flashing, and unfortunately, it's really hard to tell if that's being well done.
It helps a little that you currently have aluminum -- that can be removed and the vinyl installed in its place with minimal disruption, and relatively few excuses for doing it wrong (not that many installers won't try).
Generally, with metal or plastic siding the electric meter isn't installed on top (the siding's too flimsy for that) but instead is "framed" somehow. Ideal would be to have an electrician install a piece of painted, pressure-treated plywood (or maybe a piece of Hardipanel??) under the meter, then flash the siding to that.
All of this is why I did my own residing -- the only way to be confident that it's done right.
Hey Dan,
I would start by going the The Vinyl Siding Institute website and download their Installation Manual. That will give you a pretty good idea about the "minimum" standards to start with. I think that others have already pointed out the key issues to look for. I think the biggest problem people make is not paying enough attention to the detailing around windows and other penetrations. Be careful to flash windows and doors well and use some type of acceptable WRB on the wall befrore you begin the install.
Steve
What DanH said +
While the old siding is removed, look at where it leaked and repair water damage/rot. It is also a good time to add insulation if the needed. Resheath as needed and add a house wrap or builders felt paper before installing any new siding, be it vinyl, cement board, or wood.
You will recover the additional cost of house wrap and insulation in the first few years, in energy cost alone.
Vinyl siding = yuk
I'd leave the aluminum siding in place and do a 4000+ psi pressure wash of it and paint it if it looks that bad.
Attach a peice of 5/4 Azek for the electric panel and J-channel around it.
A good Vinyl job is all about the details that you as a homeowner (I'm guessing) would not know exactly what to look for.
It is all aboput proper flashing and the little things you may not be able to see that will make the difference in the long run.
Who ever is going to do the install make sure to check references and reputation, how long have they been doing this.
You also want a good brand of siding. My 2 favorites are Certainteed Monogram and Mastic Quest. Both of these are good solid thick vinyl with a long reputation. There is a lot of cheap shR$#@ out there.
I know that alot of guys here will say that vinyl sucks but ...not everyone like to paint or wants to hire a painter every 5 years.
Go take a look at some of the houses that they have done, ask the homeowners if you can look up close and see if you like what you see. look for tight joints, no wavy metal work, ect.
At worse ask one of us the go look for you for a price of course ;)
Good luck
Ray
I know that alot of guys here will say that vinyl sucks but ...not everyone like to paint or wants to hire a painter every 5 years.
I gotta take exception to that. Any more a good paint job will last 15 years, and vinyl will likely need a paint job in 20, if not sooner. The difference isn't worth worrying about.
I knew there would be some opposition to some of my opnions.
I know that there are times when wood siding was done well and the paint job was done well... however that is the execption and not the rule most of the time unless the the house is upper end and i mean upper end that the owner can pay for the kind of quality that will reap the benits you speak of.
I'm not here to advocate vinyl siding for all, just that it works a little better for some that's all.
Thanks for the feedback folks.
I know, vinyl isn't ideal but that's what's in the budget and better siding won't "pay back" when it comes time to sell the house.
Two replies suggested A) reading the install manual and B) reading the VSI installation guide - both outstanding resources and I learned much from each. Very informative regarding flashing, blocks, corners, et all.
I've already had one installer come out to assess. Though he's not yet writtenup the estimate he is pushing his top of the line insulated vinyl siding, touting it's hurricane cat 5 rating (not that we have many of those in Northern Va, color fastness, resistance to hail damage (another rarity in NoVa), etc-etc. Seems to be a nice product but wow, is that stuff thick - about 1.5" at it's thickest.
Now, I can see that this product, manufactured by "Alside" would help reduce sound transmission and have less waviness when hung, but I really don't see that's it's going to be much good at providing any extra R value. The other down side is, because of it's thickness, windows and doors will actually be recessed by a 1/4" or so.
Thanks again....
Dan
Yeah, I'm skeptical of the stuff with "insulation" behind it. It does make it easier to hang in some situations, and halfway eliminates the need to use fanfold when going over existing siding (which is really a sucky thing to do). But it provides minimal insulation value, and doesn't add much to dent resistance either.
All decent quality siding should be reasonably hail-resistant (though I have seen cheap vinyl siding holed by really bad hail). If you've survived with AL siding all these years, hail probably isn't a big issue there.
Wind resistance is an issue in many areas (I've seen vinyl blown off of buildings here many times), but it's as much a matter of installation as it is of the quality of the siding.
It's all in the coil...
Without reading the other responses thoroughly, besides getting the flashing details right as covered above, it is all in the coil.... What I mean is that hanging the vinyl sidiing and accessories isn't rocket science. OTOH, making the metal trim look good is as much of an art as it is a skill. That is one area that quality of workmanshipo can be really aparent. Go look at some of the work of the perspective siding company/crew and look cloesly at the details - up around the sofits, fascia, around doors & windows, etc.
Also, regarding choosing the siding mfg and details, a carefully planned vinyl siding job can actually look really good. For example, color matched J-chanel used in the right places really helps - as opposed to everything being trimmed out in white J-channel - which just screams vinyl even from out in the street a hundred feet away. Also, check into using other than white trim. Most other than economy vinyl mfgs have better than standard accessories like wider corners, window pediments, vinyl crown molding and wider J-chanel which can be used to emulate a freeze. There is some pretty good looking sofit material that can be used on porch ceilings too. For example this triple 2" : http://www.certainteed.com/resources/cts150.pdf When you go to the vinly siding mfg's web sites you will see pictures of houses done in vinyl that look really good. Here is one example http://www.certainteed.com/idea-center/gallery , and here http://www.royalbuildingproducts.com/ResourcesLandingPage.aspx?id=200 is another. Notice how they combine different colors and texture materials to "change up" the look a bit. OH - and as far as the vinyl siding itself, cheap siding might be of an .039 thickness whereas the better stuff might be around .044.
BTW - did someone say there was a spell checker? Where is it?
All really good comments, thanks much.
This job is siding and shutters and gutters - the existing woodwork is in good condition and shall remain since I like the definition that it provides. No soffets, little to no metal/vinyl trim work. I will be specifying some "trim" deails; shingle look on the gables, wider corners, light blocks, etc. Some brand of house wrap since there isn't any at this time - just that 3/4" fiberous 4x8 sheets (except at the corners where plywood is used). Exterior walls are 2X6 and our HVAC bills are pretty reasonable.
Have received one estimate using the insulated 16' panels (and replacing the gutters but they were priced sep) and it was an eye opener. I like the idea of using longer panels - fewer butt joints, but there is an up charge for those if they are offered in the brand/style under consideration. For instance, the insulated product I was pitched came in 12 and 16 foot lengths. They have another product that is uninsulated and comes as long as 25' - still wating on the quote for that.
I have 3 other estimates lined up and I'll do my best to ensure I'm comparing apples to apples.
Thanks again,
Dan